Tuesday, September 2, 2008

Truck Driver at the Greyhound scene said cops should have shot attacker!

It is about time!

If the main stream media would have only had the guts to question what was going on at the scene, instead as it seems, it has been left to the bloggers and blog readers. That question has been asked here repeatedly for the past month. Why not shoot, use tear gas, use the tasers, etc.,
In fact the truck driver himself boarded the dam bus, but the armed to the teeth RCMP could not! As if this whole scene didn't stink to high heaven, now this?

What I also find most interesting is two things.......
First: Christopher Alguire told the police repeatedly to shoot the attacker, instead they stood around for 4 to 4 1/2 hours.

Secondly: He criticizes the rcmp for moving the passengers to the windshield of the bus, enabling them to witness the atrocities being committed to the young victims body, after he" shepherded" the passengers to the back of the bus
Why would the RCMP do that, unless the had intended to further traumatize the other bus riders? They had the highway closed in both directions, so there was no traffic danger.
There is no reasonable answer for this action.

RCMP should have shot bus killer, witness says

WINNIPEG -- A man who tried to intervene after the July 30 stabbing and beheading of a passenger aboard a Greyhound bus outside Portage la Prairie, Man., has criticized the RCMP over its actions in response to the frightening attack.

Speaking to the media for the first time, Christopher Alguire, a trucker, told CBC Radio Tuesday that police should not have hesitated to storm the bus after passengers got out, in order to spare Tim McLean's body from being mutilated by alleged killer Vincent Weiguang Li.

"I told the cops a few different times to shoot (Mr. Li)," said Mr. Alguire, echoing concerns previously expressed by Mr. McLean's family, "because he has no reason in this world to live anymore."

Instead, police surrounded the bus for hours, only taking Mr. Li into custody when he tried to escape through a window.

Mr. Alguire said he was driving past the scene when he stopped and tried to help. He described how he boarded the otherwise empty bus with the driver to find Mr. Li kneeling over Mr. McLean and working to sever his head at the back of the bus.

Mr. Alguire said Mr. Li then approached him in the aisle.

"We were staring each other in the face," Mr. Alguire said, adding he allowed Li to get within three metres before stepping off the bus and shutting Mr. Li inside.

Mr. Alguire says he shepherded passengers behind the bus so they couldn't see the atrocities inside.

He criticized police for later moving people to a spot where they could glimpse the activity inside through the windshield.

Mr. Li remains in custody.

additional links to read:

Reports say man critical of police response
Manitoba trucker speaks about role in aftermath of grisly Greyhound killing

19 comments:

  1. Just read about this. It's good that people are stepping forward now, like the mother and this guy... more witnesses should give their input. Why the hell would the police move them to an area where they could see what was going on? And 4 to 4 1/2 hours... that's insane. I've been reading some comments on these news sites and some people are taking up for the RCMP, but I don't see how. They could have done way more. I can understand how shooting him would maybe be too radical to some, but at least tasering him or using tear gas... just doing something way earlier than they did.

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  2. Hey S:
    They could have done way more, and this was one time they should have.

    But the rcmp doesn't hesitate to taser old men in nursing homes or distraught passengers in airports, and they killed that one, oh and he couldn't speak english at all.


    But in a case like this that cried for action, they stand around?

    And reading how they moved the passengers to the front of the bus, so they could view all of this madness going on???

    I cannot think of one plausible reason for this, I can think of numerous devious and underhanded reasons for this. They had the highway closed there was no danger from traffic, I was absolutely shocked and appaled to read that!

    Has anyone ever come across exactly how long it took for someone to transport the passengers away from the scene of the crime?

    I thought I had come across something at one time, but I can't recall. I need to dig through all the stuff I have saved.

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  3. It's interesting to note that it is still NOT the press who is asking these very important questions - it's the bloody truck driver who was on the scene!!

    NO ONE has done a proper job in this tragedy - NO ONE. Not the RCMP - not the Press... and I'm certainly not holding out that the justice system will rise to the occassion either.

    Pathetic.

    And Pen - you're right about them moving the people to a 'better vantage' point - I mean WTF???

    It's ridiculous.

    The trucker is right - the cops should have shot the bastard. As I've said before: Cheap justice - the cost of a bullet. Meanwhile our tax dollars are going to pay for Mr. Li for who knows how long now (the rest of his natural life?).

    Shoulda blown him away. Period. End of discussion.

    ~ Buffy

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  4. 1) The reason he should stay alive (and not get shot!) is for doctors to investigate and find out why he did it so they would be able to prevent others from doing it. By analyzing him, they can find risk factors that would enable us know what causes people to act like this and take them off the street in the future.

    2) Given the above need (human rights and such aside), the police must have acted in a way that would minimize the harm from that point on. Since the man was armed, they didn't want to risk him killing himself, thereby wasting an opportunity to research such illnesses and prevent from happening.

    Hence, they followed the book and did not engage unless the suspect started harming self or other ALIVE people.

    3) I don't know why they would move them to the front. RCMP should provide an explanation for that.

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  5. Hey Penny:
    What a horrible and disgusting scene of events. Christopher Alguire should surely be commended for his bravery, quick action, and most of all trying to protect all of those people, along with the bus driver being commended. I feel for all the innocent victims men, women and children that were exposed to such violence.

    At least Christoper Alquire showed a lot of true grit, or intestinal fortitude by grabbing a snipe, a metre long bar and going back in the bus with the driver. He also organized the people in a safe place, so they didn't have to watch this horrible crime, which is up to the police to do. He was ready to take the guy on.

    Where the police standing there picking their nose? The first attending cops were probably rookies, and not at all prepared for something of this magnitude. If that was the case, then I would not blame the rookies, but put blame on their commander in charge, and also the government. (Too many young cops get killed when sent out alone to handle emergencies because of lack of experience, and mainly lack of backup)

    I keep going back to the same question in regards to the ERT Emergency Response Team. The attending police apparently called for backup from the ERT with a negotiator.

    O.K. so let's say the first attending officers called in for backup from the ERT.

    How long did they wait to call them for help? (one or two hours?)
    We have 4 1/2 hours to play with here.

    If the ERT and the negotiator did show up, what time did they get there?

    And if, and when, they showed up why didn't they do something.

    I feel that this question is crucial!

    The tactical units are trained for any emergency. I am assuming that the ERT in that area are a well trained team. Maybe not. If they didn't want to kill him, they could have shot him in the leg. Or the one shot just below the ear the ERT know about, that would make him dead before he even hit the ground. But, it's the old evidence thing. Take him alive.
    What for? Maybe they thought he was wired with a bomb, or if they waited long enough he would kill himself. Or maybe Li was waiting to get shot, got pissed off waiting, then jumped out of the window. Maybe this, maybe that.

    Maybe his programming got screwed up.

    As we all know, it was too late to save Tim's life, but to standby and watch this poor man be mutilated with a whole audience of people watching, as Christoper Alguire had stated, was so corrupt and obscene.

    When the trucker was interviewed, he mentioned that He, and the driver went back into the bus. He didn't mention Garnet Caton going back in with them. Maybe he forgot.

    Penny, in regards to the timeline I am as perplexed as you are. Another thing that puzzles me is when Li changed seats to go back to sit beside Tim, the attack started 10 minutes later. When re-listening to a couple of interviews with Caton, he stated that the attack occurred 20 minutes after, and in another interview he states 1/2 hour after. So would that change the timeline even more?

    Effie

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  6. Hey Penny:

    Factual or not, I knew that I had seen this somewhere, about Tim and Li living on the same street in Wpg.
    Kept searching, and found it on parentsunderground123, and also somewhere else.

    August 6, 2008...11:57 pm
    New Information about Vince Li

    Jump to Comments
    QUOTE AS

    There is also the strong feeling by everyone that it was a random killing and not premeditated.

    There is no strong link between Li and McLean except that

    4 years ago they worked or lived in the same street. Winnipeg is such a small town that it is not surprising that one would work in close proximity to anyone else.

    His wife said that he would take off and go away for weeks and then return.
    --------------------
    Effie

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  7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  8. Shooting him doesn't necessarily mean killing him. They could have just injured him to incapacitate him before he had the chance to further mutilate and cannibalize the body.

    And all this studying the mentally ill only goes so far. There are lots of very very disturbed people who refuse help and lead what appears to be a normal life, and then they just snap out of nowhere. Sometimes there is no way of knowing, so it's not possible that studying this one man can allow all mentally disturbed people to be kept off the streets. Instead of catering to the "rights" of one man who did a horrendous thing, people need to start thinking of the rights of the family and the rights of the public to be safer and have more peace of mind when traveling via public transportation.

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  9. hey effie: I removed your double post, I know sometimes blogger screws up and that happens, it even has happened to me!

    wrt the timeline and Garnet Caton.

    Nothing Garnet Caton says would change the timeline, the call went into the rcmp at 8:30 pm based on there own information, on there website.

    The lawyer noted yesterday it took five hours for the rcmp to arrest the suspect, that time is clearly from the rcmp receiving the call at 8:30 pm to the arrest at 1:30 am, that is five hours.

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  10. here is what the lawyer said wrt the rcmp and the timeline:

    "Prober said the RCMP hasn't told the family why it waited about five hours to arrest the suspect during the July 30 incident."

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  11. The press doesn't seem to take an initiative to ask the rcmp anything, and if it wasn't for the mom and the trucker, I don't think those questions would have been raised in the msm, only on the blogs.

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  12. "Tim McLean Sr. is the lone plaintiff in the suit, filed under the Fatal Accidents Act, but is acting on behalf of 12 other family members, including his ex-wife Carol deDelly.

    If the suit is successful, McLean's parents are entitled to $30,000 in damages and the other family members $10,000 under the act."

    http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/Winnipeg/2008/09/03/6644751-sun.html

    ReplyDelete
  13. Correction to my comment,

    if they didn't want to kill him, they could have shot Li in the leg,
    or

    one to two quick shots just below the nose (not ear), designed to destroy the brain stem and cripple
    the suspects central nervous system, whereas the suspect would be dead before hitting the floor.

    This has been used by tactical units to prevent a suspect from leaving a scene with a hostage, life or death situation.

    Effie

    ReplyDelete
  14. From Effie:

    Interesting that this fellow was the only one that noticed Li acting weird.

    Stephen Allison-another witness, another story.
    --------------------------
    Current EventsALL STORIES »Home » Current Events » I Witnessed The Greyhound Bus Murder

    I Witnessed The Greyhound Bus Murder by Stephen Allison.

    Witnesses gathered at the horrific scene.

    Tim knew he was in serious trouble, and he tried to fight back. He was swinging, trying to throw punches and trying to grab the knife. Stephen Allison , Canada
    Date Posted: 08/12/08
    Reader Rating:

    Stephen Allison was also on the bus headed for Winnipeg, and was perhaps the next most likely victim, as Li made eye contact with him across the aisle from the adjacent row, a second before Li attacked McLean. This is his story.

    My wife and I were headed down to Winnipeg, Manitoba, for school. Then the bus happened. I have found it very difficult since then.

    We had started in the Northwest Territories and changed buses in Edmonton, Alberta, around midnight. At the time of the attack later that day, I was sitting with my wife on the bus in the third row from the back on the driver’s side, right across the aisle next to Mr. Li.

    Mr. Li had boarded the bus in Brandon, Manitoba sometime between 5 and 7 p.m. the next day. I noticed Mr. Li right away, in fact very much so. He just seemed like a very weird person and all out of place. He was watching everyone that was on the bus, and seemed very paranoid.

    Originally he’d been sitting at the front of the bus. When he moved to the back of the bus after a smoke break between Brandon and Winnipeg, he was looking at each and every person as he was walking, just watching everyone. Then he sat across the aisle from my wife and me.

    I didn’t mention anything to my wife about my impression of him; I just kept it to myself. I’ve taken the bus many, many times, and have always noticed a fair few odd people on the bus.

    Garnet Caton, who was one of the first witnesses interviewed, told the media he heard a bloodcurdling scream. The scream was coming from Tim. I heard it as well, but at that point I was already up to the front of the bus. I had actually seen Mr. Li pull out the knife and stab Tim. Sitting right there, I had been the first person to see stuff.

    I’d been watching Mr. Li before it happened.


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    Tags: severed, Tim McLean, Vince Li, Greyhound, eyewitness, bus murder, decapitated, attack,

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    ReplyDelete
  15. I read the account of this Stephen Allison guy a while back, but not this one more in depth. Some of the things he says seem a little weird, though... I don't know... the full story is located here: http://www.orato.com/current-events/2008/08/12/i-witnessed-greyhound-bus-murder
    and he mentions that Li was watching everyone and chanting and kept drinking from a two-liter bottle of tea, like it has relevancy or something. Does anyone else think this guy is bogus?

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  16. thanks S and effie.

    I read the entire piece by this guy, I don't know what to make of it.

    ReplyDelete
  17. sorry, he seems to spout the same story in a number of places, there were other people interviewed after the incident, who didn't notice anything particulary out of the ordinary about Li, so I wonder if, what happened afterwards coloured his perception of what had taken place prior to the attack.
    I don't know.


    effie; I read the links to that fellow in TO, who had parts of his brain removed in 1969, that was horrid, and there really seemed no valid reason for it at all.

    I can see why he thinks he was part of the CIA experimentation.

    Did you catch that video I had linked the national geographic documentary? You would enjoy that one, and the touch on the experimentation in Montreal.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hey Penny:
    As the beat goes on!

    I agree that a lot of the stories match up among the witnesses, but I really do feel that Allison sitting with his wife directly across from Li would definitely have a more birds-eye view of Li and his attack on Tim, (as long as he was fully awake and alert?) I would like to hear a statement from the wife, but apparently Allison kept her in the dark about his suspicions of Li acting weird.

    Caton who was sitting in front of Tim, wouldn't have noticed as much as he stated, unless he was rubber-necking constantly.

    Caton had told the press that Tim was just sleeping quietly with his head up against the window before the attack. Caton also says that 30minutes went by before Li attacked Tim. Each interview was different with Caton. Most say 10 minutes.

    (A military sort with 5+ years service) I would like to know if he was in the reserves, or fulltime. Either way, he would be trained in different sorts of Commando-style fighting, offensive and defensive.

    Allison said that Li's behaviour was strange, along with Li carrying his bags, a 2 litre bottle of ice tea, and a roll of toilet paper clutched in his hands as he went to sit down beside Tim. I would be all over the toilet paper!

    But, when he stated that he saw Li pull out the knife and really didn't react at first because all sorts of hunters carry knives these days. Hello!

    He then apparently saw Li attack Tim, and he ran to the front to alert the bus driver. I think he jumped over a few seats.

    Caton, would probably only be alerted at Allison jumping up and yelling that someone was being stabbed, or when he heard Tim yell out. Caton says that he was the one to alert everyone, and Allison says he was. So, let them both have a moment of recognition.

    I really shouldn't be judging here, because it was a horrible ordeal, happening fast, with not a lot of space on a bus to do much of anything.

    Hey, if we all bottomline this, these guys are immaterial to what happened in a lot of ways, except if there were drugs flying around in that back sector of the bus, and elsewhere. It is really between Tim McLean and Vince Li, and why. Unless, in some way these dudes were involved, then we should not give them the airtime, and let sleeping dogs lie in that regard, for now.

    It is only a matter of time before some other person, or persons come forward with a new storyline. Maybe to do with this girl that was there, then suddenly not. Or how the cops found out about the laptop so soon. Whatever!

    I am still interested in the blog that said Tim McLean and Vince Li lived or worked on the same street four years ago in Winnipeg. I still think Tim and Li's paths have crossed before.

    I am also interested in Vince Li's resume applying to Police Services for a job. This resume apparently was on his computer, and the black military planes are also of interest.

    Where that computer ends up, and in whose hands is a big question mark, and I am sure that you PENNY, and NOBODY have already thought about this. We might never know everything that was on it. The police probably will never know everything. I bet the laptop gets scouped up real quick.

    Li no doubt didn't want anyone to be able to contact him with leaving his cell phone behind with his wife, then dumping his laptop.

    I feel that he was on some sort of a mission, not planning on coming back, and disappearing for good one way or another. He had that knife and scissors on him for a reason, either for defence, or to hurt someone. I would gamble on the latter.

    I just hope that Tim's parents are getting the proper guidance in trying to deal with this. If they would get some proper answers to their questions, it would help in some sort of closure. I know that people from all over the world have expressed their kind thoughts to Tim's family and I am sure that is helping a lot.

    You mentioned that two of my comments were deleted, and I can't figure out which ones they were. It doesn't matter. Just curious, as to which ones they were. I have had so many long ones on here. I will try to shorten them up.

    Penny, re stereo-typical carnival types. Yup!

    -the police taking their time because they thought Tim was ab-original. No!

    I, myself do not think that at all in this case. I am aware of the problems the police have in around different areas in Manitoba. Winnipeg & Edmonton have the highest crime rate in Canada per capita. Regina & Vancouver right in there too. But, this was an emergency call for a person being stabbed on a bus. I feel that the police would get there A.S.A.P. allowing for the fact that there might not be a lot of officers on duty, and the ones that are, out on other calls. They would have to call for backup, even from other regions. I would bet that they would be going alot faster than
    the speed limit to get there, especially it being a weapons assault with a whole busload of people that could be hurt. The way the police handled it after they got there is what throws me.

    I did see an article from CBC stating that they were being very guarded as to the graphic nature of their news casts and what information was made available to the media. I would think that the police and their superiors (Feds) are asking for this until more investigations are completed.

    In regards to the info on MK-ultra at McGill that is just one of many things that I came across. I am just getting into it, but apparently things were still going on up until 2007, and really have never stopped.

    Effie

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  19. hey effie:
    no I just deleted one, it was an identical post, that's all.

    Sometimes, blogger does that.

    Don't worry about the length of your posts, I always read them.

    ReplyDelete

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