Thursday, February 18, 2010

Pilot flies plane into IRS building, read the pilots final words..

He thinks his final words are not articulate, he is mistaken. Read it, share what you think.
I will say, people are fed up..

About 9:40 am Texas time, this pilot flew his plane into the IRS building

A small plane apparently piloted by a crazed man with an ax to grind against the IRS crashed his aircraft into an office building in Austin, Texas Thursday -- but not before writing an online rant against the agency and setting his own house on fire.

Two people were injured inside.

His final words are unavailable at his site , as it is already gone.

This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI. Please go to our forum if you want to see the smoking gun archived version of the original letter or wish to discuss anything related to this incident: Texas crash pilot left suicide note on Web site - embeddedart.com.

Regards,
T35 Hosting - www.T35.com

However, you can read his final words here
And it is a must read letter, and perhaps a must print and save letter?
It starts out like this-

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Pilot deliberately crashed into Texas building, official says







Yup, let the pancaking begin..... Anytime....
"Global Collapse" iminent?
Can't help thinking of 9/11. Guess this one wasn't rigged to collapse?

89 comments:

  1. The building may collapse because of global warming.

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  2. Hell anything is possible, but, Doug, you gotta read that guys letter, it is excellent.

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  3. I did and I certainly agree with him about accountants - they are as bad as lawyers, another group of professionals who are trained to help the rich eat the poor and middle class.

    I had to fire three of them for just being liars.

    As far as being a software engineer, I have been looking for work. I got an offer: $200.00 / week with weekly trips into Toronto for meetings.

    Its all being farmed out to India.

    I finally found an honest accountant a couple of years ago.

    As far as his research goes, I've been going down the same path and arrived at his conclusions a few months ago. Its good info to read and study, but beware of con artists.

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  4. I just don't believe it when someone says they are so poor they eat cat food. Carrots, potatoes and onions are all cheaper.

    I wonder of the last two sentences were put in there by the establishment - blaming capitalism for it all, when socialism is what the IRS is all about. Central bank and graduated income tax are two tenants of Marxism.

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  5. I tip my hat to the man. For one I don't think he was crazy, I happen to think that perhaps he was just mad as hell and simply wasn't going to take it anymore.
    Maybe more people should take his lead, just think about it, there are some 350 million victims in the US and Canada and if just a small percentage of them took one for the team and in so doing removed by any means possible just one politician, judge, lawyer etc, things would improve

    And Doug , as far as the Carrots, potatoes and onions are all cheaper crap, Gee you really sound like someone who has been there and knows all about living on the cheap, grubbing from day to day, yuh know trying to keep the hunger pains at bay. So why don't you tell us just how far a potato an onion plus a carrot will get you into the day verses a can of high protein cat food. Please give us non experts a breakdown on the cost end of it.

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  6. Doug;

    "I just don't believe it when someone says they are so poor they eat cat food. Carrots, potatoes and onions are all cheaper."

    I do. This is not the first time I have read of seniors being reduced to this level of impoverishment.
    Carrots and potatoes, since they are vegetables cannot fulfill the bodies need for complete proteins.
    Cat food is likely the cheapest source of protein going.

    "I wonder of the last two sentences were put in there by the establishment - blaming capitalism for it all, when socialism is what the IRS is all about.

    I do not think they were, the man was very clearly disillusioned with the system he beleived, or perceived as a capitalist system.

    "Central bank and graduated income tax are two tenants of Marxism."

    Then the US must be a marxist system, because it has a central bank and a graduated income tax as a mode of operation.

    I am afraid you missed the entire point of this lengthy and well written last words, this man was pushed to the limit, he had taken all he could, he had been used and abused by a system that he had been indoctrinated into beleiving was a system that worked for him, for the average american.

    What the system did was chew him up and spit him out repeatedly.

    He spoke of all the things spoken of here, and on other blogs, the corruptness of the political system, the catering to the rich, the elitism in the entire system.
    How his taxdollars are repeatedly used to bail out corporations and rich individuals and banks.

    Did you miss all that?

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  7. silverfish;

    "For one I don't think he was crazy, I happen to think that perhaps he was just mad as hell and simply wasn't going to take it anymore.'

    I don't think he was crazy either.
    I agree he was mad as hell.

    I do think this is the tip of the iceberg, silv.

    It is obvious that people are fed up, they are pushed to the limits of their tolerance. Their governments (US, Canada EU and others)are completely corrupt.
    The entire system stinks.
    The americans are planning a national strike, I hope they are successful.Very successful

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  8. I quit work about 8 years ago, worked for two years in the middle plus this one, lived on royalties for a few years and my income has been declining. I've spent a lot of time researching all this, plus time and money passing out DVD's, running in an election, and researching. This conspiracy hit me right between the eyes and all at once.

    Eating on the cheap is easy - carrots, potatoes, onions and other cheap food actually taste good and are very good for you. Garlic is great and I eat a half clove every day. The secret to making this food taste good is to cook with butter.

    For protein, I eat meat once a week - a five dollar steak that would cost ten -fifteen in Toronto, twenty five in a restaurant. My meat is well aged because I buy it on sale and eat it that day.

    I can eat very well on $50.00 / week. I can manage on $30.00. I smoke cigarettes and that is very expensive. I could more easily fly to the moon than quit.

    A 2 Kg bag of peanuts is six dollars. Thats enough for lunches for a week. Its great food too.

    The better you eat, the cheaper it is.

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  9. "Then the US must be a marxist system, because it has a central bank and a graduated income tax as a mode of operation.

    I am afraid you missed the entire point of this lengthy and well written last words, this man was pushed to the limit, he had taken all he could, he had been used and abused by a system that he had been indoctrinated into believing was a system that worked for him, for the average American.

    What the system did was chew him up and spit him out repeatedly."

    His problems were due to Marxism, not Capitalism. I fully understand the letter and I've been down the roads he speaks of regarding this conspiracy and professionally. I can't understand how he could do the legal research he has and not understand that his problems were due to Marxism, not Capitalism.

    All these big companies are owned by the government, doing government work. This distorts the economy in a way that it is no longer a meritocracy, or in free competition. Every one government job kills two in the private sector. These big companies are just waste generators.

    The lack of a meritocracy distort ethics and justice. This destroys a society. Once ethics are gone, there is no more foundation. People worship rock stars, business leaders, comedians and movie stars. They lose their ethic and come to believe they are worthless. The Superman myth is very much part of Marxism.

    Ethics are based on religion everywhere. Its the best ethical science we have - believe in God or not. Don't confuse religion with the Church. Marxism destroys religion, the family, and replaces these things with the State.

    Bank bailouts are State bailouts, its all Marxism, this IS NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, Capitalism. The assertion is rediculous - so much so I question if gov wrote this letter.

    We are Marxist every way you look. Marxism is a deconstructionist philosophy because it distorts economics and ethics.

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  10. "He spoke of all the things spoken of here, and on other blogs, the corruptness of the political system, the catering to the rich, the elitism in the entire system.
    How his taxdollars are repeatedly used to bail out corporations and rich individuals and banks."

    That is all Marxism.

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  11. We are governed by professionals -Doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, actuaries, social workers and others, not those punks in parliament or congress. Think about it.

    These are the proletariat. Marxism is precisely a "dictatorship of the proleteriat".

    The proletariat is more corrupt than the banksters and politicians - I mean more responsible for the corruption we see.

    I've read Marx.

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  12. Doug:
    "All these big companies are owned by the government, doing government work'

    This may be where the differences of opinion come in.

    The point of fact is the government is owned by all the big companies.

    They are bought and paid for via lobbyists and junkets to do the bidding of the corporate world.
    The government are virtually held hostage by the central banks.

    Bank bailouts are bank bailouts.
    No one benefitted from bank bailouts, save for bankers.

    They tightened credit, the continued foreclosing on homes, they did everything to serve themselves.
    And they did it so blatantly and so boldy that the governments are laid bare for all to see, for what they are. Completely powerless.

    As for what state were in, it is fascism, purely and simply fascism.
    There is no state empowerement over the corporation, none whatsoever.
    What there is is business and government colluding against the masses, ensuring there kept in their downtrodden state.

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    Replies
    1. I hate to bother with this, since it's so late in coming but have to.

      I think you're nearly on point, but how could you know of one of the grandest of their secrets? That being, their are over 80,000 government agencies in the US. Think of them as play businesses, not "really" at risk of failing and not required to obey any laws so to speak.

      It gets better. Each of these agencies maintain a slush fund. Before I explain, just go with it. Where do they get the money to stash in these secret funds? It's complicated, but can be determined if you dig in the right places.

      For instance, each state is required to submit a budget regularly. This budget details assets and expenses, resulting in a plan for future expenditures. This inevitably falls short and the community is informed of cuts caused by this deficit.

      However.....there's another document each state is required to submit. The CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report). This is where they reveal their total assets, the good kind like cash, stock, business investments, stake in ventures, tons of commodities, and of course property. But even this is deceptive, because much of what is deemed a future pension liability is in fact not.

      When you look carefully at the CAFR you are astonished at how many huge private businesses are MAJORITY owned by these US governments. Ford, Apple, etc. They even have bureaucrats sitting on their boards, but often opt to simply assume the board will make the "correct" decision knowing their masters are always near.

      So, in summary it is the government that owns the corporations. Think of the government as the largest organized crime ring in recent human history. But, I wonder whether it matters which owns which. I do, however think it's much more psychologically damaging with the government owning everything. It's corruption cloaked in crooked corruption.

      Delete
    2. Hi TNN

      Thanks for the comment, I went and quickly checked your place out. very nice

      I am familiar, but, only slightly with the CAFR
      This is Clint Richardson's "baby" for lack of a better word

      I had a couple of interviews here, somewhere with him.

      As for who owns what and the corruption involved?

      It's all corrupt. To much power and wealth concentrated in to few hands leads to tyranny

      Delete
  13. wow. just my 2c, but the important thing here is not the intellectual debate over the definitions of capitalism, marxism, fascism (though imo pen is right). it doesn't matter that much to most people. the reason the letter is dangerous is because of the powerful and clear message: work and play by the rules, you get screwed. repeat.

    that's what the vast majority of people will understand from the letter, as they live that same life or at least live one or two paychecks away from it. so the man acted as a matter of principle, in the same way that someone might light himself on fire in another place and time -- to make a point. the point is: i believe so strongly, i know this so intimately, that i will die a spectacular death just to prove it to you, so that you might understand and please do something to save yourself.

    that's what he did. in my opinion, it is counterproductive to get away from that powerful message and into the weeds (and granted i go in the weeds all the time to dissect meanings!). but there aren't too many people today who do stuff like this, who are actually genuine. and his letter, for whatever errors, strikes me as genuine. certainly his action was genuine. and so i think the thing to do is take what he gave and affirm it. YES, we are being screwed. we see that. we get that. he may be wrong about some details here and there, but he's not wrong about us getting systematically screwed.

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  14. "The point of fact is the government is owned by all the big companies.

    They are bought and paid for via lobbyists and junkets to do the bidding of the corporate world.
    The government are virtually held hostage by the central banks.

    Bank bailouts are bank bailouts.
    No one benefitted from bank bailouts, save for bankers."

    The government owns all these companies, read about CAFR. You are getting this from propaganda.

    The government, like any criminal organization, has two sets of books. You are looking at the wrong book. Jones does a movie about CAFR. Lots of stuff all over on it.

    The banks are the government, just as in any Ch11 bankruptcy.

    Marxism needs a privately owned central bank. Banks owning governments is a direct result of a private central bank and is therefore part of Marxism. Its a tenet of Marxism.

    Penny, read Carl Marx. Then look around. he is everywhere.

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  15. I want to just throw a link to a news story here, which I think demonstrates succintly the point I was making about government,business and banks being in collusion against the masses.

    The economy is in a mess, tax revenues are down, unemployment and welfare are up. (Canada, US, EU etc.,)

    An opportunity is available for government to recoup tax revenues, much needed revenues.

    http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCATRE61I2SR20100219

    "Canada will formally oppose international efforts by the world's major economies to impose a global bank tax as the current government favors lower taxes"

    This is the tobin tax, which is IMO a very good idea.

    Anyway, the Canadian government claims it favours lower taxes, well for banks anyway.

    but, earlier this monthy it was reported that the Canadian Fed does not favour lower taxes when it comes to the working classes, the downtrodden masses.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5i_FFNwN2B4XqfTbHSuOrGIeTpc6A
    Higher taxes needed to eliminate deficit.

    granted this is former finance minister talking, but, he is warming up the audience. He is planting the seed, he is preparing the populace for the inevitable higher taxes that the government will be forced to increase to deal with the debt.

    The tax on banks would make increased taxes on the populace unnecessary and given the fact that the mess was created by the banks, they should help to clean up their mistakes.

    But, they won't. The people will.
    Because the government is beholden to the banks, is doing the bidding of the banks..

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  16. United States is Marxist, America is capitalist. America has been taken over by the United States. United States was formed after the first civil war to organize the people into paying the private central banks of the City Of London the debt. They got their lawyers over here. The BAR association became the monopolistic power of justice in order to protect the banks. 1933 is America's third bankruptcy. Its happened twice, about 70 years and 140 years before that.

    The United States was born out of bankruptcy. It was born out of America.

    9/11 was to distract us from the fact that we were going under more bankster control, we couldn't pay the debt incurred from 1933, so the banks took more control. Bankster run = MARXISM.

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  17. A peasant, I agree the important thing is the content of the letter, and this is why I notice the smear is on.

    I also noticed the FBI quickly took his site down.

    Recall when the Dugard girl was found.
    Her kidnapper had a blog, it stayed up. Full of nonsensical railings.
    I linked to it, it was up for days, filled with hundreds and hundreds of comments.
    That blog stayed up because it served a purpose, this mans site came down because it did not serve a purpose.
    Once the letter got out, and the genie was out of the bottle, the msm posted the letter.
    They couldn't let blogger scoop the letter.

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  18. Fascism is state control of the mind, it isn't public-private partnerships. It arises from public private partnerships. Read carefully what Moussolini said. He is often mis-quoted.

    I tried to find it, couldn't. But he was clear, fascism does result from the corporatism.

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  19. What is important is that we understand the problem Stack writes about.

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  20. If it's got an 'ism' at the end of it, I'm pretty sure it's all part and parcel of the same shit, being controlled by the same elitist fucking pigs.

    "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more."

    Yes, quite. Whether, as A.Peasant points out, this idea is taken on by more people, and if so, at what personal point each decides this to be the case, or whether this chap is a one off, the seed has been planted.

    People will fight back, but their survival (or the change they hope to create by their act) will depend on when and what their actions were.

    Personally, I think the timing couldn't be better for some people to make a stand. But would I be ready to carry out an act like that, no. Not at this time. Things for me would have to get a lot worse. I know from personal experience what it's like to have nothing, nothing but debt and no way of seeing out of the black hole. Fortunately I discovered a different perspective on it all which allowed me to continue to improve my life's value, as opposed to my person (you know, that bit of paper that follows you around for your whole life)

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  21. Nica Leon - A man who wouldn't take it any more.

    http://edo-theinsoundfromwayout.blogspot.com/2009/11/warning.html

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  22. Stack did the establishment a huge favour if this was real. He planted the propaganda of all propaganda while giving the State the right to take more control. Lets see what happens with private pilots now.

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  23. We have to start understanding this - or lose. We cannot win a physical fight, they have unlimited judges, lawyers, politicians to use as canon fodder. They are just as afraid as we are.

    What we need is words and fearlessness to use those words. Words are more powerful than bullets.

    We need to look beyond the headlines, read the old writings, and think.

    Its not happening.

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  24. you know Doug, i disagree. people need to use common sense. if you think people are going to start reading marx, and that's the way out, it's not gonna happen. people can get the meaning of the letter without the knowledge of marx, because the letter has accurate emotional content -- and that's what people read. in fact, that is the knowledge constantly used *against* people by manipulators in the media, who lead people to believe lies with their cleverly constructed narratives. so in this case, the emotional content is pointing out the systemic corruption. as penny notes, that's why the letter disappeared -- because it is sufficiently accurate in that regard. i don't believe he claimed to be a professor, just a guy who got screwed multiple times. it's not complicated.

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  25. The letter didn't dissapear. The FBI took it so that you would read it. And you did, lots of people will. Its a rail against corruption of Capitalism and a demand for Marxism. Its all truth except at the end. Its masterful propaganda, or a guy that misunderstood as so many people do.

    Inside job ? Maybe. If not the establishment has broken the Champaigne already.

    How do we know Stack was really in the plane ? Maybe he was taken days ago and his online personality maintained by an agent.

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  26. Inside Job: http://www.prisonplanet.com/source-fbi-knew-austin-attack-was-coming.html

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  27. Personally I think that someone has FAR to much time on his hands.

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  28. well, i suppose it matters how one reads the end of the letter. i did not read it as marxism good, capitalism bad. i read it as them both being bullshit, and that's why he put marxism first, because everyone knows that marxism is bullshit.... followed by capitalism, also bullshit. aha.

    i note that people have been accusing obama of marxism for a couple of years now, and it's not a compliment.

    i would verify that he listed marxism first but the letter has, in fact, been taken down now.

    whether it was an inside job, i don't know. i'll check the article out more carefully in a bit.

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  29. "Personally I think that someone has FAR to much time on his hands."

    That is not part of a discussion.

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  30. We don't know what capitalism is, we haven't experienced it, neither has Stack.

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  31. i don't have an -ism agenda.

    i'm wondering how did the FBI know that he changed his letter 27 times? did he publish it and make 27 changes? or else was he under surveillance?

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  32. Probably built into the document in code. I bet the docs contain info on where it was written, when, etc. Thats just a guess if it was word or PDF. HTML ? - good question.

    Or they were watching him

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  33. ok, after a most enjoyable afternoon, lunch at my favourite thai restaurant, then a walk in the woods, I am feeling reinvigorated.

    First of all

    Doug

    "Stack did the establishment a huge favour if this was real. He planted the propaganda of all propaganda while giving the State the right to take more control. Lets see what happens with private pilots now."

    Nothing will happen to private pilots or private planes, zip, zero, zilch.
    To much money and power in that group, I post a story about a week back, the private pilots and their planes were not subject to the scrutiny of the commercial planes, so nothing will come of this in that regards.

    Actually Stack's website was taken down at the request of the FBI.
    "due to the sensitive nature'
    Therefore it was taken down in the hopes of the letter not being read.
    As I stated when the Dugard kidnapper was caught, his website, his blogs stayed up, for a surprising lenght of time, I figure after a while blogger just shut it down.

    There is no reason to think the FBI requested the site be taken down for any other reasons then the sensitive nature of the content.

    "Its a rail against corruption of Capitalism and a demand for Marxism."

    While the letter is a rail against corruption, government and politicial corruption, it is not a demand for marxism, it is a recounting of his problems, the problems caused by a corrupt government and political system.
    It is the 'this is what is driving me' to take the action I am about to take!

    As for the 27 changes in the letter, it seems after the fact, the html code was gone through and the changes were noted.

    It is of no real relevance IMO, it shows that he thought and rethought what he was writing, beyond that, I don't see anything else to it.

    Even Vince Veneziani acknowledges it was suggestive of, how angry he may have been. Of course that is his speculation.

    My speculation is it is demonstrative of how much thought he put into his final words.
    As this letter was his final word, his death bed thoughts, as one may say. I would choose my words equally carefully, in that scenario.

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  34. A peasant-
    Is the letter gone again, good god.
    I printed it up, and have it right in front of me, so I can easily read it again.

    ReplyDelete

  35. Edo wrote-
    "Personally I think that someone has FAR to much time on his hands."

    Doug responded-
    "That is not part of a discussion".


    And neither was cat food part of the essential point under discussion, Doug. Nor was Marxism vs Capitalism. Or FBI running an inside job.

    These are all distractions away from the point Joseph Stack was making and what that means. And all aimed, it seems to me, to lower the credibility of the man.

    Did you mean to do this, Doug?

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  36. When we look at a situation, any situation, particularly one that may be conspiratorial.

    We always look for inconsistencies, right?

    As of this point in time, I see no inconsistencies in this scenario.

    The life history he laid out in his final words is consistent with his reported history, he said he was giving the IRS his pound of flesh and he did precisely that.

    I am not splitting hairs with anyone over communism, capitalism, marxism etc, because all these terms have mutated over the years, and their true meanings are lost.

    I will stick to my original assessement of the political situation being one of fascism, and will point you to Dave McGowans great book
    Understanding the F-word.
    Great book.

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  37. Stack blamed the problem square on capitalism. It isn't capitalism. He was wrong. So that is a comment on his letter and its relevant - he did this because of the corruption of capitalism - a system he knows nothing about and has never seen.

    I don't mean to lower or raise his credibility in your eyes. It was a stupid act that probably killed an innocent secretary.

    All he did was save the government the trouble of doing it if this was real. Jones says a reliable informant has reported that the FBI and fire trucks were there waiting for it to happen. We will likely never know, but I trust Jones judgement on these things, not all things, but these things. He hasn't said that it was an inside job for sure but said he has reason to believe it was.

    I believe this because the letter was intentional propaganda. I think maybe Stack wasn't even on the plane.

    I think the letter was propaganda.

    Don't get mad at me or insult me for having a different opinion on this.

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  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  39. Doug wrote,
    "I think maybe Stack wasn't even on the plane."

    This is another unsubstantiated Red Herring designed to further lead away from the man and the point of his letter. This is a disinformation technique and you use it repeatedly, Doug. You have successfully stopped the conversation here from exploring where this incident and Stack's expressed sentiments might lead.

    You are looking more and more like a disinformation agent to me. If you don't like being called a disinformation agent, Doug, stop emulating their tactics.

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  40. "We always look for inconsistencies, right?"

    I see a giant inconsistency in his letter. He identifies what Marxism identifies itself as, he states capitalism is totally corrupt. This from a man who says he has investigated tax law in depth. Anyone who does this quickly learns that its a Marxist scheme.

    The last two sentences were slamming capitalism and saying great things about Marxism. What he said about Marxism is exactly what Marxists say about Marxism.

    Asfar as Capitalism vs Marxism vs Fascism goes, I agree that there is great confusion regarding Fascism and capitalism means many things, BUT there is no doubt what Marxism means. Everyone understands this term from the Commie Manifesto. It has a precise meaning and a precise clear book that lays out its meaning. There are tenets that define Marxism.

    I define Fascism as state control of the mind.

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  41. "Don't get mad at me or insult me for having a different opinion on this"

    If this is directed towards me?
    I do not understand why it was said, as I have done neither.

    To dismiss countless words on this mans history and his life and his problems based on two sentences at the end is a story being "spun" to fit a certain political agenda.

    At no point in time did Stack blame his problems on "capitalism'
    If this man's last words are being spun this way, this is misinformation pure and simple.

    Spin, to portray Stack as something other then an individual who has be burned by the sytem and has become extremely disgruntled.


    I checked my link to the letter in my post, it is working, go and reread the six pages of writing.

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  42. I notice prisonplanet is using the word "manifesto' repeatedly.

    That is spin. Completely.

    And the wording is used to link this man's final words to the "communist manifesto"
    This is a propaganda technique and should be out and out ignored.

    guilt by association
    bandwagon
    name calling

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  43. Well James it seems that the disinformation thingy worked. I'm still stuck on the Potatoes, Carrots and onion thing.

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  44. "If this is directed towards me?"

    No, it wasn't. It was directed at the Silverfish.

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  45. "To dismiss countless words on this mans history and his life and his problems based on two sentences at the end is a story being "spun" to fit a certain political agenda."

    What political agenda ?

    I have read nothing on anyones opinion about Stack. Those are my own opinions and come from no where else.

    If you knew anything about Marxism, you wouldn't be accusing of having a political agenda.

    I read Jones site for the article by Paul Joseph Watson on the evidence of it being an inside job.

    I read the actual writings of Marx, the social engineers and the political philosophers. I don't need anyone to tell me what to think.

    I'm surprised that you suggest such a thing when you know I am a 9/11 truther. Just because I think you are wrong doesn't mean I have an agenda.

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  46. "And the wording is used to link this man's final words to the "communist manifesto" "

    He says of Marxism exactly what Marxists say about Marxism. That makes him a Marxist.

    The sentence, "From each according to his ability, To each according to his need", comes right out of the commie manifesto. That makes him a Marxist, especially when you compare it with his final sentence on capitalism:

    "From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed"

    Free market capitalists do not use words like that to describe their beliefs.

    Here is a link to the Manifesto:
    http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

    Try reading it before doing personal attacks and accusing others of political agendas, or throwing around reading recommendations for others.

    I'm surprised at this, Really.

    Pardon me for being the only one who actually knows anything about Marxism.

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  47. "Well James it seems that the disinformation thingy worked. I'm still stuck on the Potatoes, Carrots and onion thing."

    Grow up. Stop insulting me with these stupid attacks. Go read the manifesto so you can at least know what I am talking about.

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  48. "I notice prisonplanet is using the word "manifesto' repeatedly.

    That is spin. Completely.

    And the wording is used to link this man's final words to the "communist manifesto"
    This is a propaganda technique and should be out and out ignored.

    guilt by association
    bandwagon
    name calling"

    I made the same association they did without reading their stuff. I am publishing an article saying the same thing in an alternative paper because they agree with me.

    Your blog is great for headlines, and you do good research. But your time spent doing that is my time spent reading stuff like the manifesto. Obviously Jones has read it too. Anyone who has can see the link. I bet there is a million people in North America that would agree with me.

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  49. http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html

    I just found that link for readers here

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  50. Alex Jones, whom Doug Plumb references, is a well known gatekeeper. Gate keepers are useful to their sponsors because they keep the protest within manageable limits which allows the system to endure.
    Gatekeepers are useful also to people like us if we know how to use them. By observing which issues they try to shut down or derail, we know their weak spots and should then pile on the research to determine what their panic is about and broadcast it.

    Gatekeepers try their utmost to stop this process from proceeding by dragging Red Herrings across the trail such as the communist vs capitalist bullshit put up by Alex Jones and ably demonstrated in front of our eyes here by Doug Plumb. The point of Joe Stack's play on words juxtaposing the communist supposed (but false) raison d'etre with capitalism as it is experienced was to highlight capitalism's essential built in greed. His whole letter is about the greed of the system and it's minions at the expense of those they supposedly serve. That's the point, and Joe spent six pages talking about this greed and exploitation. But Doug took one sentence out of the whole letter, twisted its intent and blew it up with all the hot air he could muster.

    Another trick is to smear the messenger by association with whomever the target audience is against. To that end Jones and our own Doug have associated Joe Stack with the FBI.

    Insults and outrageous statements are also used to antagonise forum posters and start arguments. It doesn't matter what the argument is about or who 'wins' because the object is to take up the time and energy that would be spent on finding out what the gatekeeper (and his/her sponsor) is trying to stop us from looking at. I have drawn Doug's attention to his red herrings and baseless statements and he has done his best to ignore me and those points and continued on blowing his horn presumably hoping no one else will notice. But Doug, time's up, mate; you're blown. You knew this was coming didn't you?!

    If anyone would like to read the link on Penny's front page about how to spot disinfo agents, it will make for interesting reading when reflecting on Doug's statements and arguments.

    So fellow Pennyites, what it is about Joe's letter and his actions that the elite are so afraid of?

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  51. "So fellow Pennyites, what it is about Joe's letter and his actions that the elite are so afraid of?"

    The first signs of a leak in the dam.

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  52. Good morning!
    ah, gatekeepers, they do a necessary job, for those that employ them.
    In this case prisonplanet is most definitely gate keeping.


    I spent some time thinking about those last two sentences.
    The bone of contention for the few.

    As written:

    The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

    The capitalist creed:
    From each according to his gullibility, to each according his greed.

    The first comment is attributed to Karl Marx.
    I could find no former mention of the second quote belonging to anyone but the pilot Joe Stack.

    So this is what I think.
    He took the first saying, and created a personalized second version that related to his situation.

    He felt clearly that he had been the gullible one, all along, and he says that over and over in his letter
    "we have been brainwashed to believe"
    "I realized for the first time"
    He felt he had been gullible and duped repeatedly.

    The greed part, "to each according to his greed" is reference to the government agencies, and their elite cronies, at the banks and at GM.
    The agencies IRS, repeatedly kept him down, chewed him up and spit him out.
    It denied him his existence,while representing the government, while that same government was coming to the rescue and bailout of the elite segment of the population.

    He did not endorse communism or marxism, he mereley used on saying to create another that was more appropriate for his situation.

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  53. James: "what it is about Joe's letter and his actions that the elite are so afraid of?"


    as edo said, the first leak in the dam.

    This is why the letter had to be first removed and second smeared.


    Joe Stack is everyman, he is you and me, he has been dealt a rotten hand, he lived his life right, he worked, he built up a business, and the corrupt system ripped his live to shreds.

    ReplyDelete
  54. "Alex Jones, whom Doug Plumb references, is a well known gatekeeper."

    I'm not referencing Alex Jones. I read my own stuff and can form my own opinions.

    First of all, I believe he is honest and not a gatekeeper.

    Secondly I don't agree with his political opinions on a lot of things, they are incompatible with a technological society.

    Thirdly he is the best source for truth in news related to government.

    Fourthly, he had Traficant on yesterday who was railing against Israel and doing it very effectively. Neither Jones nor myself believe Israel runs America. Jones did the interview and I listened to it.

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  55. James, the fact is that we don't even know if Stack was on the plane. The last time someone flew a plane into a financial building, it turned out that the accused were not even on the plane.

    The only reason to believe Stack was on the plane is that the government says he was.

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  56. To be honest, I think this guy just flipped and choose a rather dramatic ending.

    I think of it more as a sign of the times sort of thing, a rail against legal government corruption - whatever ideology that government might hold (or say it holds).

    We can all relate to that - no matter what country we live in.

    I think the rest is all trappings and the only lesson here is that corruption is rampant everywhere there is human activity involved.

    As far a Jones goes, he has some good guests on, but I take his conclusions with a little salt sometimes - like with almost everything. I don't think there is an answer to all of this mess, neat and tidy and clean. Let's face it the whole scam is a true clusterfuck.

    Wrt Israel running the US, I don't think it's Israel perse, but a bunch of corrupt bastards and their cronies hiding behind a useful shield and screwing the world over. Israel is just the ltest scapegoat in this rotten rabbit hole. The Jews are the chosen scapegoats of all time and the sad thing is they continually let themselves be and oddly seem to thrive on this. (Not all but many).

    Ahh, this is turned into a rant...

    But, hey Stack certainly made an impression eh? Don't read too much into it I say.

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  57. Dougie give it up already, your starting to sound less and less like a pit-bull who simply won't give up a bone and more like someone who is simply off their meds.

    Sit down have a smoke and eat a can of Cat food with a side of potato's, carrots and an onion. A well rounded meal helps the thought process and the way your starting to rail on about non events it sounds like you need all the help that you can get. Or take a pill and chill, whatever works.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me crazy.

    I have read thousands of pages on politics, law, money, banking and ethics just in the last year.

    I have my own views and they don't match any popular view that I have heard, from Jones to CNN.

    Stack, while putting action to many of our thoughts, was wrong.

    I agree that the system is corrupt, but for entirely different reasons than Stack, Jones or CNN say it is.

    To fix it we must look at why it is corrupt and what we can do to change it. I have my own ideas on that and they have nothing to do with flying planes into buildings.

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  59. Doug wrote-
    "Alex Jones, whom Doug Plumb references, is a well known gatekeeper."

    I'm not referencing Alex Jones. I read my own stuff and can form my own opinions.

    First of all, I believe he is honest and not a gatekeeper.

    Secondly I don't agree with his political opinions on a lot of things, they are incompatible with a technological society.

    Thirdly he is the best source for truth in news related to government.

    Fourthly, he had Traficant on yesterday who was railing against Israel and doing it very effectively. Neither Jones nor myself believe Israel runs America. Jones did the interview and I listened to it."


    What's wrong with this posting from Doug?

    Disinformation artists ignore the essential point under discussion and focus on side issues or introduce irrelevant new ones.

    In my last comment, I called Doug as well as Jones a disinfo agent but Doug ignores my calling him a disinfo agent and focuses on Jones instead and lists his reasons why he likes him.

    Now why would he do that when he has shown sensitivity to being insulted in previous posts? Why doesn't he want to talk about the issue of him being a disinfo agent?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Penny,
    I've read that quote of Stack's before and more than once including the line capitalists "according to their greed". He is quoting it in it's entirety from somewhere else.

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  61. hey james, thanks for pointing that out, I couldn't find an reference.

    but, I still don't think he was endorsing either communism or marxism, in any way shape or form.

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  62. Yes, Penny, there's no way he was endorsing communism. In any case there's little difference between communism and capitalism functionally, anyway. They both have a goal of monopoly over resources which includes humans, in their minds. Both are driven to ever increase their control over people through centralising power.

    Capitalism is well named. It has been designed by capitalists for those with capital to exploit those without capital and to keep it that way. The chief capitalists (bankers) create the capital, afterall. In no way does capitalism like competition. J.P.Morgan is reported to have said when addressing a convention of capitalists that "competition is a sin".
    And he backed up that sentiment by forming his famous 'trusts' i.e. cartels to exploit the public through price gouging. Capitalists naturally gravitate to cartels and other monopolistic devices.

    Capitalists often hide behind the term 'Free Enterprise' but this is diametrically opposed to their chief motivation of control and maximising profits. It's a mask to hide behind.

    Communism is where the state is the monopolising agent.
    Capitalism is where 'capital' or corporations (read banks) are the monopolising agents using the government as a front to hide behind and enforce their demands.
    Fascism is where the corporations and the government are seen more openly to be acting in unison.
    All three are experienced as much the same for the average person in the street. Indeed, all three have the same group of people involved in their formation over the course of history. This group is the families that have controlled the worlds central banks and the Bank for International Settlements in Basle Switzerland for generations.

    So no wonder these systems have the same outcome for the peoples of the world.

    This fundamental truth is one for the gatekeepers to avoid at all costs.

    Getting back to Joe Stack, that's a good point both you and Edo make about it might be the start of a flood of action. I believe this is what A Peasant said, too.

    There may be another angle. The system grinds people down through the agency of many little bureaucrats enjoying their day of power over the hapless citizenry thinking they are protected and that the citizenry are powerless to strike back.

    But what happens if the bureaucrats start feeling they are vulnerable? What if they are more reluctant to harass and financially brutalise the average 'Joe"? What if more victims start making it personal and hitting back at these bureaucrats? The system will start to run off the rails as far as the elite is concerned. their enforcement mechanism breaks down and their power turns to shit!

    Could this be a major worry for the elite?

    ReplyDelete
  63. "In my last comment, I called Doug as well as Jones a disinfo agent but Doug ignores my calling him a disinfo agent and focuses on Jones instead and lists his reasons why he likes him.

    Now why would he do that when he has shown sensitivity to being insulted in previous posts? Why doesn't he want to talk about the issue of him being a disinfo agent?"

    Just because you call me a disinfo agent doesn't mean anything. If I say the moon is made of cheese does someone need to disprove it ?

    You have no substance for the accusation.

    All I have done is say I think Stack was wrong and that he has fallen for Marxist propaganda. I'm having no trouble finding others who agree.

    Obviously that quote was from someone who hates capitalism. So what ? No one here knows what a capitalist system is anyways. We have never experienced it.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Something of related interest from Judge Napolitano on Youtube

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  65. James, Elliott waves ? The dollar will rebound ? Do you know what Elliot waves are ?

    Anyone that says we have a national debt is a disinfo agent. Its not money its just paper !!!(technically war-script)! Why do we have to keep pretending its money and that we have to work so we can give it away to someone else ?

    Its not "IOU's" - what did we get for it ? - someone just ran it off on a printing press !!

    There some disinfo exposed, if you are so interested in dis-info.

    ReplyDelete
  66. James, I actually agree with your post at 2:14, except where you define fascism and say the elites will be afraid of us.

    I say they are us and they need to check their egos and realize they too will not have the right to happiness when this is all over. I think many of them have egos so big that they actually need to be institutionalized. I don't think its evil, its ego.

    I don't think we can win a hot war against the establishment.

    ReplyDelete
  67. When the bureaucrats, the apparatchiks, become more worried by the citizenry than by their bosses or when the bureaucrats identify more with the citizenry than their bosses, then the system will collapse through non-violent non-cooperation because they are the ones that make it all happen.

    But reactive, defensive violence on the part of some people from the general public may trigger this response.
    The elite hold power only through the grip they have on peoples minds and particularly on the minds of the 'trustees' (the very people Joe Stack had so much trouble from) in this big open air prison/asylum we call a civilised society.
    Are the elite aware of this and afraid of this? you betcha!

    See Edo's prescient posting from last November, A Warning

    ReplyDelete
  68. Agreed. My point is this can be accomplished though knowledge. I don't think Stack had the affect you and I both desire.

    They are caught in a Malaysian Monkey Trap, holding the nut and unable to get their hands out of the jar.

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  69. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  70. "Capitalism is well named. It has been designed by capitalists for those with capital to exploit those without capital and to keep it that way."

    James, at some point in time, this is going on my blog, where I put the different sayings.

    But what it made me think of is this most recent economic crisis, we have the capitalists (the banks) getting bailed out for their casino gambling.(derivatives etc)
    Once bailed out and restocked with cash they began immediately to buy up assets, other banks, smaller banks. They also continued to foreclose on homeowners, despite, what the political talking heads were claiming.
    The banks could have renegotiated with homeowners, but, they did not want to, they wanted to foreclose on the homes. It is more profitable for them to do that, then to allow a family to stay in their home.

    The "trusts" you speak of James, are we talking here about the railway and gasoline monopolies?
    Am I at least thinking along the same lines?

    "The system grinds people down through the agency of many little bureaucrats enjoying their day of power over the hapless citizenry thinking they are protected and that the citizenry are powerless to strike back. But what happens if the bureaucrats start feeling they are vulnerable?"


    Because they are the face of the elite's to the populace, and the elites are tyrannical, hence the bureaucrats will be seen to be the enforcers for the powerful.
    And yes this will make them vulnerable and fearful.
    The bureaucrats will then not want to reinforce the mindless, idiotic rules that come from above.
    Out of fear from those below, and there are so many below,so, so many.

    ReplyDelete
  71. Sit down have a smoke and eat a can of Cat food with a side of potato's, carrots and an onion.

    silverfish that was priceless...

    i am still laughing....

    james is citing the hysteroidal cycle from Lobaczewski's book Political Ponerology:
    http://www.ponerology.com/evil_2a.html

    the elites are well aware of this cycle. from sott:


    In the previous article in this series, we introduced the concept of the hysteroidal cycle and saw that good times contain the seeds of bad times, while bad times invite people to return to analysis and critical thinking necessary to pull themselves out of the crisis. However, the insiders are also aware of the hysteroidal cycle. They are aware that certain shocks can serve to awaken people from their slumber, can provoke individuals onto the path for answers. To counter the positive aspect of bad times or periods of shocks, they have done vast research into how, when, and for how long shocks need to be administered in order to keep people submissive.

    http://www.sott.net/articles/show/145209-Good-Times-Bad-Times-2-Insiders-and-the-Hysteroidal-Cycle

    lobaczewski explains that evil systems always collapse when people stop cooperating with it. ie: the mid-level managers who make it all go around... when they stop, or more specifically, it's called non-compliance. and people figure out how to do this. they misplace paperwork, they "forget" things, they overlook things. except this time instead of doing that sort of thing for the benefit of the elites, they do it for the benefit of the people, who they belong to after all. the elites are a very very tiny slice. they can't operate their system alone. bottom line.

    it's peaceful non-compliance. that's the way out.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Doug,
    how can you agree with me when you can't even agree with yourself? You dodge back and forth so much it's a wonder you aren't giddy. Actually . . .

    ReplyDelete
  73. Morning Penny,
    glad you like my definition of capitalism!

    "The "trusts" you speak of James, are we talking here about the railway and gasoline monopolies?
    Am I at least thinking along the same lines?


    Yep, and steel mills and shipping etc.

    BTW, the banks didn't lose on bad bets if that is what you are thinking. It was a set up from the start to con the Govt (read taxpayers) into "bailing" them out i.e. forking over trillions to buy up those in trouble through the crisis deliberately imposed by these same banks.

    Agreed about them not needing to foreclose, but then, that's the whole point of the system - exploiting those without capital.

    Morning Ms Pleasant. It seems I'm in esteemed company!

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  74. I was thinking further on the subject of monopolies within the system, and there is of course, the banking monopoly, then the monopolies of old, up to the more modern and recent monopoly of microsoft and walmart.

    Both predators and both protected and encouraged by government.

    Then I was thinking how everything is centralized around one large monopoly of something.

    Even the move to create "green" power has to be monopolized.

    The government subsidizes ie: takes taxpayer dollars, and gives it to business to construct massive wind farms or large solar arrays, or all the ethanol plants.

    Rather then individuals using solar technology on their homes, or if they have the room using a wind turbine, whatever the case may be.

    But to have this sort of decentralized system would take the control out of the hands of the few, the rich, the elites, and give some of the power to the masses.
    So governments take taxpayer dollars and give to corporations..





    Anyway, this entire idea of monopolisation or centralisation is designed as James has said to take the power away from the people, and place it all in the hands of the few.

    Political Ponerology?
    Heard of this one many times, but, I have yet to read it.

    ReplyDelete
  75. "how can you agree with me when you can't even agree with yourself? You dodge back and forth so much it's a wonder you aren't giddy. Actually . . ."

    I never stated any of my beliefs other than my interpretation of Starks letter. I don't know where you are getting any of "my personal beliefs" from what I have said.

    I believe that the names "capitalism", "Marxism", even "Fascism" are all essentially "isms" to trap us into a certain believe system, to catalogue us.

    Marxism and Fascism in the strict sense are well identified, but most people do not realize this so even those are actually "isms".

    Now, onto the Internal Re-Venue Service. This exists as a debt collector that works on behalf of the international bankers to pull the United States Inc out of bankruptcy. United States Inc is a debt slave to the international bankers.

    In return for the United States Inc being allowed to continue operation under Ch11 bankruptcy it was forced to declare war on its citizens through the Trading With The Enemy act and through HJR 192. That is why public education lies to you, thats why we have fluoride in the water. They trick you into becoming an efficient debt slave, nothing more.

    The Internal Re-Venue Service is a privately owned corporation that works under the guise of getting the United States Inc out of debt.

    The money it collects goes to the international bankers who murder, enslave, torture and bribe members of other countries to trick them into coming under the same system, to propagandize the citizenry into becoming sureties for this debt.

    American money was taken and replaced with war script as a result of the 1933 bankruptcy.

    In reality, none of this has anything to do with us Natural Human beings.

    Canada differs from this in the sense that Canada isn't actually a country. Canada Inc only exists around the coast and in the waterways of Canada. It is an organization that exists in admiralty law only. We volunteer to become sureties for Canada while living on the land by accepting government benefits. Since humans require a community and there is no legitimate government, it is a trick.

    Notice now, that the post office no longer accepts general delivery. This is a BIG BIG deal, the office of the postmaster general is a very powerful office but the private side no longer exists. The courts can construe you as being a surety for Canada just be sending and accepting mail. Youcan protect yourself by putting "[Without Canada]" on your outgoing mail.

    Kevin Costner was trying to tell us something in "The Postman".

    So you call me delusional and you don't even know what my beliefs are. So now you do. I do not post here to defend unjustified and somewhat personal attacks that I have had to accept on this forum. I'm not going to do it any more. Don't attack personally other posters on my forum or I would censor you.

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  76. One more thing: Walmart, the Oil Companies, Universities, Microsoft, Google, etc are ALL owned by government in a very large majority.

    The idea that these are examples of capitalism is a carefully orchestrated trick to get you to hate capitalism.

    You are all railing against Marxism while believing that its capitalism, as did Stark.

    There is lots of stuff out there that proves this fact. The subject matter is Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports (CAFR). Alex Jones does a movie about this as do many others. He exposes the balance sheets, these are dry movies.

    So really, its a provable fact that private property is almost completely abolished, as dictated in Marxism. This is not opinion, its fact.

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  77. "One more thing: Walmart, the Oil Companies, Universities, Microsoft, Google, etc are ALL owned by government in a very large majority."

    Doug,there is zero proof of that to my knowledge.
    I have never seen anything, anywhere to this affect.


    "The idea that these are examples of capitalism is a carefully orchestrated trick to get you to hate capitalism"

    We should "hate" capitalism, because it is just an ism, and all the ism's are pretty much the same.

    Like democrats and repubs and liberals and cons.

    All the 'ism's have at the their core, a powerful elite, the 1 percent, who are controlling the 99 percent.

    ReplyDelete
  78. There is "capitalism" and there is "freemarket capitalism". The free market capitalism is what people normally believe we live under and what is responsible for our woes.

    The stuff on Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports is widely available. Government, like any criminal organization, maintains two sets of books.

    The movie Alex Jones did on it is as good as any I suppose. I watched it years ago. I came to understand this through different means but Jones pretty much nails it.

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  79. Alex Jones?

    Tell me what Alex Jones has actually researched for himself?

    And don't say Bohemian Grove! That's got comedy value for sure, but it ain't (and never was) news.

    A few years back I took a subscription out with prisonplanet.tv so I could go through all the archive material, films etc, and as an aside, starting listening to some of his broadcasts....

    We all make mistakes I suppose. I think I learnt from mine!

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  80. His movie, "Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports" is free on the web. Say what you will about Jones, I bet he is how you woke up - if not you, certainly most people.

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  81. You'd be betting wrong Doug!

    Actually, though I hate to admit it, it was Loose Change that planted the seed. And from there I went to Zeitgeist and blah-die-blah, you know the rest...

    I'm not saying Alex Jones doesn't cover some truths, he does. I'm saying he's not covering anything new, and when he covers stuff, he's fingering the wrong people.

    I'm having some great word verifications today! this one is "holed"... pigeon anyone?

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  82. Zeitgeist is a great example of pigeon holing people - it leads right to Zeitgeist 2.

    Jones exposes the big secret - the CAFR. But its been exposed by many, not just Jones.

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  83. OK Doug OK. You're a fan of Alex Jones. You rate his work. I get it.
    I suppose you also believe its the Saudi's that run Hollywood, right?

    How can you take that shit seriously?

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  84. http://www.prisonplanet.com/joe-stacks-family-doubt-suicide-note-was-written-by-him.html

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  85. "OK Doug OK. You're a fan of Alex Jones. You rate his work. I get it.
    I suppose you also believe its the Saudi's that run Hollywood, right?

    How can you take that shit seriously?"

    Jesus H. Stop it !!!!!

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  86. Sorry Doug. Cheap shot from me about the Saudis in Hollywood. But AJ did say that! And as for the AP piece that interviewed his daughter in Oslo, it proves less than the letter does. I remember the days and weeks after my father died well. Grief does make things hard to accept.

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