Monday, March 8, 2010

John Taylor Gatto - Another Brick in the Wall

I haven't gotten through this interview entirely, BUT, based on what I have heard in the first 50 minutes? ...... I am going to say, the rest will definitely be as equally compelling.
This may give some food for thought to the people who visit here that have younger children.
I know it has given me much to think about.
This is the first time I have heard John Taylor Gatto interviewed.

His books include: Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling (1992); The Exhausted School (1993); A Different Kind of Teacher (2000); and The Underground History Of American Education (2001), and Weapons of Mass Instruction (2009).

We ask some important questions: Is there a relationship between eugenics, mind control and compulsory education? Is compulsory education good for anyone and what are the negative effects of our "modern" education system? Where did our education system originate, and by whom? What's happened to our educational system since the 1800s? Has there been an intentional effort by the elites and government to dumb us down?

really a must listen!


  1. Charlotte Iserbyte explains the same thing in many interviews. I have listened to her on Rense many times.

    Its really mind blowing - the system of control and how "education" is really just State propaganda and its purpose is to keep the children too stupid to see what is really going on.

  2. I don't know who charlotte Iserbyte is?
    I do note alot of times when I come across people who take issue with the education system, the most common complaint is the system is to 'liberal', and promotes gay rights and is anti-religion, stuff like that.

    This is not that kind of interview at all.

    I am now 98 minutes into this interview and yes, it is lengthy.
    And I have had a few eye poppin moments.

    I whole heartedly suggest listening twice, to this interview, I know I will be.

    Slozo and Edo, I hope you will both and will share your thoughts.
    I know your both busy, but, I really think (given you both have younger children) this would be really thought provoking for you.

    I have raised my, one and only charmer, and there were times I felt, I was tough on her.
    But. I think she was better off for it.

    He speaks of children doing work.
    Well my daughter will tell you about doing work at home. Including gardening.
    When she went to school, she did not need to learn her multiplication tables, because the kids use a calculator.
    THat was not going to stand in this household.
    I told her, you can't always have a calculator at your convenience.
    If you can multiply, you can divide.
    She later told me, she was glad I made her do it.
    Why? She got a job and could make change. From a cashbox!
    Any of you ever see the kids that work in the stores these days.
    They can't make change.
    They can hardly count for chrissakes!

    I'll regale you with the time, I ripped a project up she was working on. Horrid, I know.
    But, I did.
    She was just copying verbatim, she was not trying at all.
    I knew she was brighter then this.
    I took her papers, ripped them in half and said, you can do better then that, you are far more capable then just copying. I explained to her about reading, absorbing and then putting into her own words.
    Long story short, she got the highest mark in the class.
    I had her hold onto the project, to keep it in her desk, to remind herself of what she can do, what she can accomplish when she really tried, when she put her mind to work.

    OH well, there are many more stories..

    Doug; I hope you do listen

  3. Okay I am a dolt.

    I was happily listening to Another Brick in the Wall, having flashbacks to seeing Pink Floyd live, Montreal, New York... ohhh those were the days, then I decided to click on comments and lost the song..


    going to listen now.

    But - beforehand I've gotta say that the education system did me NO favours whatsoever. I was a very curious and questioning child. All I found was that I was stifled beyond belief and it was just easier to play the part of the idiot than it was to even bother to try anymore.

    Oh, I got my 'good marks', all fine and dandy but I can count maybe two wonderful REAL teachers in all my time in high school. I had one teacher who was appalled that I dared to ask questions.

    My son, sadly, experienced the same, as with many of his friends.

  4. I can't recall my school experience as being wonderful or otherwise.
    It just was.
    Though I recall..three teachers I thought were great.
    WE had two nuns, one was wonderful, the other horrible.

    My daughter was lucky, she had alot of good teachers, I mean really good.
    She would even tell you that.
    Small classrooms. small school, THe school had very much the feel of community.

    I recall in Gr 1, she was finishing her work well ahead of most of the other kids, the teacher set up additional work stations, with different activities, so kids like her would not get bored.
    She was happy. I was happy.

    My hubby's school experience was one of boredom.
    I just asked him and he said, yeah, he was bored.
    Got through high school with no notes, doing no homework, just passing tests.

  5. Gatto is the best I've ever read about education
    used against citizens to the advantage of TPTB.
    It was his Underground History of American
    Education that sent me down the rabbit hole
    of conspiracies ( not necessarily enjoyable ).
    Please do yourself a favor and read Weapons
    of Mass Instruction. There are even some Youtube
    videos with Gatto explaining how the elites
    education differs from that of the sheeple .
    Enjoy your site !

  6. Hi Penny, thanks for posting this. I found it really interesting. I've listened to John Taylor Gatto before, I think it may have been with DBS.
    Where to start?
    One of the questions I always ask myself (and sometimes to them) is to what extent are the teachers aware that they're spoon-feeding indoctrination into our kids? When my son was about to start junior school, the parents were duly invited to a presentation by the school. Now where I live, it's pretty rural, so most schools are village schools, and all local schools are church of wales schools. That means religion has a bias on the whole curriculum, not just subjects that deal with religion. I had some issue with this, and after the presentation caught the headmistress and the local vicar exchanging pleasantries.
    I explained who I was and that I'd been brought up pretty much atheistically, and that I wondered why religion should have any relevance to numeracy, as an example. I also asked if the school taught creationism. At this point the headmistress had started turning a shade of purple, and kindly excused herself whilst leaving the vicar with the questions. I thought this was very telling. I wasn't rude, maybe quite direct, but we're adults discussing the future of our children, I see no issue with that.
    As it turns out, our son is showing signs that he's making his own mind up about these things.
    I've found the more outdoor stuff you do with your kids, the more attention they give.

  7. Gatto and Iserbyte say the same thing- Iserbyte is easier to find - more interviews, etc.

    I've listened to many interviews with both.

    Gatto has been interviewed by Alex Jones as well. Jones really does add a lot to what Gatto says.

  8. "the most common complaint is the system is to 'liberal', and promotes gay rights and is anti-religion, stuff like that."

    The anti- religion is a key aspect. There is no ethical education to replace what people normally learn from the church.

    Society sits on this foundation of ethics that is being destroyed. Its happening in the "legal" and education system. That is the root cause of our destruction - no ethics means no civilization.

    Emile Durkheim says that ethical behaviour is learned behaviour and children can learn it from religion or from a study of ethics - it has the same (necessary) effect. I believe religion is just a way to bring the necessary study of ethics to the masses, as Durkheim does.

  9. "The anti- religion is a key aspect. There is no ethical education to replace what people normally learn from the church."

    ethics and religion are not the same, in fact, religion has a huge history of being extemely unethical.

    I for one sit firmly in the camp, that religion is not necessary to education.

    And I attended catholic school for years.

    If someone wants religion they can go to church.

  10. ramblin man, glad you enjoyed the interview, and I have looked into the book you suggest.
    Thankfully it is not to pricey.

    Oh and I am glad you enjoy the blog :)

  11. Hey Edo;
    I agree spending time outdoors is key!
    When our daughter was younger, we were outside daily, tv was limited.

    Her and I went on a bike ride or walk everyday, we took, along other kids too.
    Sometimes, I would have literally a good chunk of the neighbourhood out for a walk.
    On the week-end it was a longer walk, looking at trees, plants, wildlife, hawks etc.
    We have fed birds from our hands.
    Fishing, swimming, outdoor bbq's
    Picking berries, stalking asparagus and so forth and so on.

    When she comes home, she still goes out with me... walking or riding.
    At her home, she walks and rides still, and guess what she reads books, literally inhales them and goes for woodland walks etc.,
    It seemed she enjoyed all that outdoor stuff so much, she just keeps right on trekking.

  12. I find it somewhat interesting for someone to use Church and ethics in the same sentence. Like perhaps one has something to do with the other? This of course is patently false as the church, whatever denomination one might care to drag out is not now nor has ever had anything to do with ethics.

    The three religions that most people are concerned with these days, namely Christianity, Mohammedanism, and Judaism were ALL created in the same place at about the same time by the same people and for the exact same reason and that reason was and still is to CONTROL the people by whatever means necessary. The means used were and always have been FEAR, for fear is the easyest emotion to exploit. Fear from that which any logical thinking human being would find laughable. That is unless they were indoctrinated into the cult of fear before and until the age of seven, then the hook is set and it is permanent.

    So I for one would like very much to know what the hell Church and ethics have in common.

  13. The church gives a very scientific and logical outline of what the rules of ethics should be for civilization to exist. All religions espouse the same basic ethics.

    Many people who write about ethics agree that religion has a very logical set of ethics.

    The problems that religion has is that "Church" and "church" get confused with religion, when it can be argued that church and Church (Inc.) are the antithesis of religion. (worship only one god)
    "Worship only one god" destroys Satan (mans ego) which is what is leading us today.

    The idea of a god is brought out so that young people can learn to behave ethically when they are not really mentally capable of understanding the underlining reasoning for this ethical behaviour. The ethical behaviour becomes habit.

    At a later age, those who are inclined to question things figure out that there is no god, while those who live dogmatically suitably live with a certain amount of fear that keeps them in line. This is according to Durkheim in his ethical essays.

    Sorry for being a little off topic, but I think ethics has everything to do with everything and I try to look at these events and discussions from an ethical point of view.

    Too many people criticize the bible without having read and studied it. I have done both with the first few books in the Old Testament and am starting to understand them. They are not so simple as their face value and form the foundation of our Law today.

  14. On the other hand from the system of "Law" (Mosaic Law), the "Legal" system is one lead by mans ego and is leading most of us today. That is what is fundamentally wrong with our system of "justice" IMO.

    We are not being taught Mosaic law in school, only the "legal" system (which worships government) when anything is taught at all.

    Moses is the great philosopher of law in the bible.

  15. Edo, just so you know, when the part 2 comes up, I will post it too.
    I am quite looking forward to hearing it.

  16. I have to say, that was fantastic. Thanks for posting that Penny. I had to laugh and smile wrt to the references to the one/two room schoolhouse. My son and I were discussing that very thing the other day (before I listened to Gatto), as my Dad attended one and had already read the Encyclopedia by age 10 or so, growing up in a mining town in Sask. So much of what Gatto spoke about has been conversation fodder in our household for years, it's so sad that more people to really 'think' about it.

    But I guess that's the whole point isn't it?

    I can't wait for the next part!

  17. I just finished listening to it. I agree that these interviews are very eye opening. I remember being amazed the last time I heard an interview with Gatto.

    I do think he exaggerates - I doubt Buffet had started ten companies by the age of six.

    I do believe that children are like sponges when it comes to information gathering and would learn far more if left to their own devices. They never stop asking questions. I'm not sure about the child labour ideas he has.

    Part of my election platorm was to use old people to teach children rather than shovel them off to old age homes. I got a lot of very enthusiastic nods in agreement with this idea. Many thought it was my original idea.

    BUT standardization is necessary to a certain extent - some compromise is necessary for us to live in a society- particularly if it is a technological society.

    The system we have has been set up to protect the bloodlines from having to compete with the rest of us. It is built on pride and greed as well as a survival instinct on their part.

    I agree with him in that Plato, Darwin, etc were wrong in their views on elitism. I don't believe any one person is much smarter than another.

  18. Hey Maggie and Doug

    glad you both enjoyed it!
    I was telling my daughter about it, encouraging her to give it a listen.
    She was telling me - she thinks home schooling is the way to go.
    Which was surprising to me?
    Because, I have never heard her speak like that before.
    She said school was generally positive for her and yes, she had lots of good teachers, but the curriculum is crap.

    (which is interesting, because, that goes to show what a difference good teachers can make, despite the bad curriculum)

    Doug, wrt to the buffett references, I believe he was going on recall from buffetts biography?

  19. silverfish-missed your comment, apologies, and you'll have no disagreement from me.

    ok, except for this one part

    "Fear from that which any logical thinking human being would find laughable. That is unless they were indoctrinated into the cult of fear before and until the age of seven, then the hook is set and it is permanent.'

    I got unhooked, and am likely a rarity, but, it is possible.

  20. "I got unhooked, and am likely a rarity, but, it is possible."

    It certainly is, Penny (and Silv). My experience is that once the programming has been identified, it can be overcome if there is the will to do so.

    Programming is almost always, at base, counter to human nature. So it doesn't really stand a chance once exposed. There is only the habitualness of it to overcome with one's will.

    As for a jesuit saying, "if I have a child till he is seven, I have him for life". well, he would say that, wouldn't he? So the answer is, "only if the conditioning is not exposed".

    See there's a little bit of programming that nobody notices. But now with the lie exposed, it's power goes, does it not?

  21. "Doug, wrt to the buffett references, I believe he was going on recall from buffetts biography?"

    Yes, he also mentions Franklins biography. Today a child couldn't cross the Atlantic - too many cams to be a stowaway.

    Ellul, in Propaganda "..", does explain that truth is a powerful innoculator for propaganda.

    So we are waking up, the people around us are waking up. Since moving here I have told one health store worker about Codex, another woman at the grocery store about the ingredient "Natural Flavors" meaning Aspertame. Both were quite receptive and showed interest.

    But this doesn't get us to the core issue, which is ethics and how our self proclaimed elites do not have any and are actually sickened by the general public.

    We are caught in the Malaysian Monkey Trap.

  22. I am on it, Penny. Trying to fit it in my very busy schedule, thanks for the shout out. Will report back afterward, look for the usual late comment ;)

  23. "My experience is that once the programming has been identified, it can be overcome if there is the will to do so."

    But, it isn't easy.
    I recall being indoctrinated in my catholicism.
    And when I think about my 'thinking' at that time in my life?
    I realize now, that I wasn't thinking.
    I was regurgitating.
    I find it a bit difficult to think back on this. To think my parents meant well, they really did, they just did as their parents had done, oh plus did I mention Dad is from Italy. Everyone at the time ww2 was roman catholic, it factored large in their lives.

    I will freely admit it was my husband, at that time boyfriend, who was capable of really thinking.
    He read alot, as I did, but, growing up I read alot of fiction and I mean tons of it, not that their is anything wrong with that.
    It is good when your a kid to have fun with imagination. It seemed as I got older I realized, somewhere I had missed the boat.
    I started to read non fiction.
    And to this day, I still do.

    Even having this blog,though it is mostly current events, has been an eye opener.
    IN many ways.
    sorry for wandering off there James..

  24. slozo, I look forward to you sharing your thoughts :)

  25. I don't think you were wandering off at all, Penny. This is what Gatto is on about. Public education plays a major part in how we see ourselves and the world we live in. It sets up up for the ongoing 'education' we get from the media and its proxies - all our co-workers and neighbours that "regurgitate' what they receive from the aforementioned media believing that it is their own thoughts. This is why I don't watch teevee and encourage others to throw it out of the house whenever I get the chance (like now!)

    Yes it's hard to unravel and remove this programming especially if you don't have anything on hand to replace it with. After all, it has become the basis of your personality, your ego, which is going to die, at least in part. And the ego is right. But the ego is not the 'self'.

    By considering your husband's words and by selecting you own reading, you took charge of your mind and your life, Penny. This takes more than a little courage.

    It also helps if you realize, as in my case, that your particular programming has nearly killed you a number of times. This provides more than a little motivation!

  26. I agree with James, Pen - you make very good points.

    Myself, I come from a family of northeastern european immigrants, so I have the whole WWII background in my family, as well as very strong anti-communist (and anti-russkie by extension) teaching. Growing up, I too can view myself through a time lens and see that every political opinion I had was a mirror (put through a tiny generation filter) of my father's. But, thank goodness he also taught strict independence, and a strict european work ethic (saturday school, chores every weekend, extra school work from euro text books two grades behind which had difficult problems).

    And thank goodness he taught me to think on my own, and to reason logically. And thank goodness I had all that, and didn't have to fall back on the soft backbone of school teaching!

    Everyone of us had hurdles to cross, Penny . . . and I don't count myself as one of the exceptional people who had to break through a very hard mold.

    I am half way through the talk, and it is pretty compelling stuff, knoledgable guy he is. I also have a new book to read (Tragedy and Hope). Will finish this weekend - g'night!

  27. Finished listening to it, very good stuff, thanks Pen.

    I and the wife have already been contemplating homeschooling, and not much this guy talked about was new to me, at least, the concepts. He had a historical perspective though that was very interesting.

    Not sure though about schooling at home, if we can swing it or not. And, we are thinking of doing it like my parents did with me . . . but, I still have a few more years to think and plan. My sister and her husband homeschool as well, so I have a fair bit of info from them on how it works and so on.

    Anyways, I am stretched thin as always, gotta go.

  28. Hey slozo, glad you enjoyed the interview!

    When I heard him mention, noam chomsky, I thought of you, right away, but, I didn't think it would put you off, there was just way to much info in that interview.

    I am going to put the second part up when available. Because even I want to listen to it!

    I listened to this one twice, myself.