Tuesday, March 16, 2010

John Taylor Gatto- Another Brick in the Wall Pt.2

Thanks to Gnostic Media, again, for this great interview.

"We continue with some important questions: Is there a relationship between eugenics, mind control and compulsory education? Is compulsory education good for anyone and what are the negative effects of our "modern" education system? Where did our education system originate, and by whom? What's happened to our educational system since the 1800s? Has there been an intentional effort by the elites and government to dumb us down?"

If you missed Part 1, I urge you, I encourage you, to go and listen here first!
Then come back and catch the second part posted above.
Listening to both these interviews is time well spent.


  1. Thanks for this Penny, I will try to listen to it soon.

    I'm not here much these days as Dad had a fall and I have been staying there (for the majority of the time and only 'visiting" home).

    I am currently a walking zombie.

  2. ah, I am so sorry to read that maggie. :(

    Is he ok, otherwise?
    Tell him I say hello and wish him well for me?

    take care of yourself too!

  3. I'm sorry to hear about your father Maggie. he must have been a great parent.

    On the topic of Gatto, I'm reading Ellul's "Technological Society" and am coming to the realization that all these things we talk about wrt elites are true, but there are other forces at work.

    This book is really changing my perspective on things. We are all aware of the affect of the "machine" around us, the technical society actually leads us toward the same places as these elites appear to be.

    The real enemy may be technical progress itself. Technical progress leads us toward fascism and increased government control, just because of the nature of technology itself. It makes us more dogmatic by nature and we must become more predictable for the necessary planning an advanced society requires.

    Our new god is efficiency rather than a god of morality and the two are incompatible as oil and water.

    There are complex convoluted ideas in this book and I hope to be able to compress them into a few words for a post on the subject after a second reading of this book.

    Its an important area, one that a few essays touch on such as ones by Bertrand Russel but Ellul really brings points home by dispelling popular beliefs.

    I'm not yet convinced that his hypothesis is true, but there is a bigger picture here than the machinations of a few evil men ruling the world. The ideas are complex, I don't know if I will be able to fully understand them.

  4. Thanks Penny and Doug.

    I took him to the hospital yesterday, and thankfully they kept him overnight (the first sleep of a solid six hours since last thursday). I'm hoping that they can get him into temporary care until I can cope again.

    Doug - he wasn't such a 'great parent', but he's my father and it's what one does.

  5. Thanks for the tip on John Taylor Gatto. I've not heard this yet but I have watched some of his stuff on Youtube and have found it really interesting. He has had plenty of time in the educational establishment and has considered his experience with great insight.

    At first I thought his idea of dropping off two teenage pupils at a truck stop at four in the morning to be a bit mad but then I thought; Well that's what we spend the rest of our lives doing, being dropped into unexpected circumstances, so why not?

    It's should be about education and empowerment rather than processing but an educated and empowered population would also be dangerous I suppose. Better to fit people in boxes, break their wills and keep them as ignorant and unquestioning as possible. Anyway, he's a lot better on the subject than I am but thanks for sharing him Penny.

    I Hope your Father is getting better Magdelena.

  6. Hey Maggie!
    thanks for the update on your Dad.
    And hurrah to six hours of badly needed sleep!

    Doug: ellul's technological society.
    must check that out..

  7. Hey John, nice to see you about.

    I found both these interview to be very eye opening.

    The part that stuck in my mind with this last one, was the elastic/plastic from structural engineering as applied to humanity.

    That aspect of structural engineering played big in my thoughts on why the trade towers could not have collapsed in the manner that they did.

    But applied to humankind, I thought it was really an interesting way of looking at human reactions

    "He has had plenty of time in the educational establishment and has considered his experience with great insight."

    I would agree with that, he really had put a great deal of thought into the sum of his experiences in that field.

    Oh and for a 75 year old! I want to be as 'with it' as him, when I hit that age.

    Just gotta keep the brain active..

    I know edo and slozo caught the first part, so I do hope they give this a listen.

    And I was thinking of Gallier today.
    Gallier, may be interested but he is missing in action..
    Gallier? Are you about?

  8. Hello,

    I'm still lurking and reading everyday, but had nothing interesting to say lately, sorry.

  9. Will listen to it this evening if I can Pen, thanks.

    Doug - my contention is that the elites are the ones releasing the technology, and they are the ones siphoning certain kinds to us and hiding/discarding/burying many others. All technological advancement has come from the Perpetual War Machine, save for the tv perhaps, but even then you never know, as it has become the #1 tool for psyops and brainwashing and conditioning.

    If technology had not been withheld through corporate and military (see:elite) control, we wouldn't have half the problems we have now in terms of cancers, pollution of water and air, sickness, starvation, lack of water, lack of resources (because we could use much much less), poverty, etc etc etc.

    But then again, we might all be educated, happy, and totally unenslaved, beholden to no one, with no kings above us.

    Where'd the death and destruction be then?

  10. This was a great interview. Of equal relevance, Pink Floyd also did a song called "Welcome To The Machine" before The Wall came out. I think it was on "Wish You Were Here" another great work of theirs.

    "Scouting For Boys" means war I think.

    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    Where have you been?
    It's alright we know where you've been.
    You've been in the pipeline, filling in time,
    Provided with toys and 'Scouting for Boys'.
    You bought a guitar to punish your ma,
    And you didn't like school, and you
    know you're nobody's fool,
    So welcome to the machine.

    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    What did you dream?
    It's alright we told you what to dream.
    You dreamed of a big star,
    He played a mean guitar,
    He always ate in the Steak Bar.
    He loved to drive in his Jaguar.
    So welcome to the Machine.


    Slozo, I think TV was made for war - the Americans wanted more precise bombing so putting a TV cam in a big bomb and sending the signal to the pilot aboard a bigger bomber would accomplish this.

    I think that elites have secret technologies, but these technologies are developed by ordinary folks who are paid hush money to keep them secret.

  11. Hey Gallier, have you been able to listen to these interviews, they are quite good.

    They have answered the question for me, the one that perplexes me...

    How is it people are so oblivious, to so much?

    It starts early in life and goes from there

  12. slozo
    "elites are the ones releasing the technology, and they are the ones siphoning certain kinds to us and hiding/discarding/burying many others"

    I would certainly agree with that statement.

    Including the tv, which I believe may have come out of the military or NASA, which is pretty much the same anyway.

    Makes me think of the question?

    If there was a cure for cancer, would we know? Would we be told?
    Or would it be buried/hidden?

    When it is so much more advantageous and profitable to just keep 'treating' the symptoms.
    With expensive therapies and drugs.

    Like an industry!

    In the first interview when Gatto talks about the percentage of the population that is required to be incarcerated to enable a prison for profit industry, that just stuck in my mind.

    To make an industry of prisons and play with the lives of people, how twisted is that?

  13. doug:

    welcome to the machine, may me the war machine, but I wonder if it the broader context of adulthood and life in a controlled and indoctrinated society?

  14. "Welcome to The Machine" is about the music industry. "Scouting for boys" is looking for band members.

    The lyrics are a description of the PR blurb they, "the machine", are going to provide as 'history' for 'Pink' and his band

  15. No I haven't listened to the interviews. It's that I'm not overly interested in the US school system, because I do not know it first hand. The only idea I have about it comes from Hollywood movies and series (Saved by the bell, the simpsons, American Pie, Ferries Bueler) which are not a good starting point for an objective view of a school system. I don't even have a definit opinion on the french school system as so many parameters are dependend of different things (teachers, region, location).

  16. Gallier;

    While Gatto speaks of the American system, the American system is the same as the system world-wide.

    He makes it clear, that the American system was adapted from the Prussian system, so I will assume, that the Prussian system is wide spread throughout Europe.

    I can tell you in Canada, what he said, it is applicable.

  17. Great interview, more enlightening, and now I have added another book to read to my list. I have absolutely no idea when I will find the time.

    James - that could be true in terms of your supposition of the meaning of those lyrics . . . but that also might be like taking for granted John Lennon's "official" explanation of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds as being from a picture of Julian Lennon . . . laughable stuff for the masses, really. I'll go with the intuitive meaning gleaned as I listen to it and read it . . . and together with the ominous tones and pace of the music . . . the music industry wouldn't get such heavy play, my friend. It's the machine of life where we get spit out of school and put into factories to work, the whole workings of the system - that's the machine. Scouting for boys is looking for band members?!? Not buying it, besides, you didn't even reference the boy scout inference made in the phrase . . . it's a reference in my opinion to organised clubs and groups meant to condition you in certain ways.

  18. so what book is it slozo?
    because I just got my copy of weapons of mass instruction and omg, just the few pages are great!
    I may share some here

  19. Oh - the book to get on top of Carrol Quigley's "Tragedy and Hope" was Francis Bacon's "The New Atlantis" . . . he mentions it briefly when talking about the instituting of a research university for the elite.

    And I forgot about the Weapons of Mass Instruction, right . . . too many to read!

  20. Hi Penny, yep, great second part to the interview. I must admit I was impressed with the upcoming guest announcement on Gnostic's podcast. Gatto was terrific, a great storyteller. The kind of guy you wish was your grandad, imparting wisdom.
    I'd love to hear some of his ex students impressions of him. How they remember him, and if his (challenging) teaching style served them well in the long run.

    Thanks for posting Penny!

    Word verification = hearcha :)

  21. Hey Edo, glad you enjoyed the interview, I really am.

    I just got the book weapons of mass instruction, and like I have already said, the first few pages are great.

    Though I am trying to finish the book I am already reading before getting into this one to much.

    I find alot of the interview information is colouring my perception of things in another shade, if you know what I mean.

    Instead of me just looking at a situation from say 4 different ways, not I have to consider another angle to it.

    and Yes, the upcoming guests are good, I am going to post the interviews as they become available.