Saturday, March 3, 2012

Syria hands over bodies of Marie Colvin and Remi Ochlik

Thanks Felix!

The bodies of two foreign journalists who were killed in shelling while trapped inside a besieged district in the central Syrian city of Homs have left Syria late Saturday on board a French plane to Paris, the Polish Foreign Ministry said.



French Ambassador Eric Chevallier, center, receives the body of slain French photojournalist Remi Ochlik in Damascus, Syria, Saturday, March 3, 2012. Syrian Red Crescent officials handed over to embassy officials Saturday the bodies of two foreign journalists who were killed in shelling while trapped inside a besieged district in Syria's central city of Homs.


Earlier Saturday, Syrian Red Crescent officials handed over the bodies to embassy officials. French Ambassador Eric Chevallier received the body of French photographer Remi Ochlik, and a Polish diplomat received the remains of American Marie Colvin. U.S. interests in Syria are represented by Poland after the U.S. closed its embassy in Damascus last month.

The bodies, in brown coffins placed on stretchers, were transferred outside the Assad hospital in Damascus and driven away in an ambulance. The journalists' belongings were placed in black plastic bags.

The Polish Foreign Ministry in Warsaw said the bodies left Syria late Saturday on a French plane headed to Paris. No other details were given.

Colvin, 56, a veteran correspondent for Britain's Sunday Times, and Ochlik, 28, a photojournalist, had sneaked into Syria illegally to get an eyewitness view of the government crackdown in the country, where thousands have been killed since a popular uprising began a year ago.

On Thursday, videos released by activists in Syria said Colvin and Ochlik were buried in Baba Amr.



Syrian activists in Homs bury bodies of... by reuters

But the Syrian government said the bodies had been disinterred and the government would repatriate them.

And Syria did just that. They did right by the deceased and their families.

The rebels preferred to make a show of the burial, to exploit the deceased for propaganda purposes rather then hand the bodies over to the Red Crescent, which they could have....

62 comments:

  1. Penny - check top link - article & photo at the Boston Herald, the story a copy of an earlier Fox News item. I missed that video....thanks.

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    1. Nice photo stream accompanying article at the UK Mail Online

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    2. thanks felix. got the link fixed :)

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  2. No US officials involved in this story? Except Lebanon Embassy alum Franklin Lamb? Is Lamb the only US govt comment on the death of American abroad?

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    1. actually, it appears that way.
      I noticed the US was quiet on the death of Marie Colvin..
      strange?

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    2. This fits with my theory below. If her death was faked then the U.S. perps will probably want to avoid committing any U.S. crimes like aiming false propaganda at the American people or committing a fraud by reporting a fake death. So if a perp from another country commits the act it's all good.

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    3. "want to avoid comitting crimes"? lolol their whole act is a crime from start to finish. they have NO issue with that.
      what they want to avoid is being exposed or getting caught in the act.

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    4. I agree they have no problem committing crimes and simply don't want to be caught.

      That's why the blame will roll downhill, whether it's a Polish diplomat or some NGO that is being used by the West.

      And aiming propaganda at the American people used to be a red line issue so I bet it is important for the U.S. to pretend that it is not crossing this line, or using its diplomats in psy ops as the Syrians may have been goading the U.S. into doing . . .

      Any word from the Syrian government about the details?

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  3. The bodies were being transported by Air France flight 571 from Damascus to Paris via Amman which left the Syrian capital at 0025 local time on Sunday (2225 GMT on Saturday)

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    1. The bodies were formally identified in Damascus on Friday by French and Polish diplomats.

      US interests in Syria are being looked after by the Poles.

      What with that terrorist Ford out of Syria....
      The US is relying on the Polish?
      Remember when most of the Polish government died in the plane crash? That was one really strange accident..

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  4. I just don't believe it. I will be willing to admit I'm wrong and I admit this seems like good evidence but it still smells funny.

    I mean it appears like the spook journalists/photogs don't actually go into danger. Much of the violence we see on youtube is fake. It looks like Hicks and the gang are faking their injuries too and the danger they are in. Why would this one be any different? Why would they put the spook journalist in harms way when they didn't have to?

    There had to have faked this discovery and removal by the Red Crescent . . .

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    1. Based on what the reporting says, it was the Syrians that "disinterred" the bodies.

      "But the Syrian government said the bodies had been disinterred and the government would repatriate them."

      If the Syrian government reported that I would think the soldiers dug the bodies up?

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    2. But the reporting has not been reliable.

      It doesn't say the Syrian government dug the bodies up though. Just that they were dug up. The government was just pressured to allow in humanitarian aid, etc., so maybe it was coerced to allow the Red Crescent in to do this mission, etc.

      I agree that it seems like good evidence on its face that these people were killed. But we need more details and once again, it doesn't make sense because none of the other reporters actually saw danger even though they pretended like they did. So of course a dead body, if it can be faked, would be great proof for doubters.

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    3. Bijan Farnoudi ‏ @Bijan77

      Reply
      Retweet
      Favorite
      · Open

      Bodies of killed journos Marie #Colvin & Remi Oschlik were handed over to #ICRC & Syrian RC by Syrian authorities.

      From the twitter feed left by Felix
      This is the frustrating part having to do the best with the info at hand
      It appears that the info at hand demonstrates the Syrian authorities retrieved the bodies and gave them to the Red Cross/Crescent.

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    4. Yes, and once again the gatekeeper of the info is a person who claims to be impartial but whose actions aren't impartial.

      Look into the history of the Red Cross/Red Crescent. It is entirely possible that the West was able to get someone inside or they are complicit in the war propaganda.

      I would like to see a plausible explanation for why the other incidents were faked but this shelling and death was real. I mean you agree that many of the other "incidents" were faked, right? You viewed the videos linked below, right? And remember, some of us were able to figure this out without the conclusive proof we now have. Shouldn't those of us that correctly sniffed out the fake videos get the benefit of the doubt?

      So if you think other videos were faked what possible logic could explain the death in this instance? Why the hell would she be right in the middle of the battle if her goal was simply to produce propaganda? Look at her history as well. She's a fake reporter who was created specifically to engage in this propaganda.

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    5. And I know we both were correctly suspicious before so I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong . . . sometimes I sound more sure of myself than I am because I"m trying out a theory. Either one of us could be right with our first impressions about the recovered body. I guess I am extremely cynical now . . . but for good reason I think.

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    6. WWM
      I agree completely that much of the reporting was falsified.

      "I would like to see a plausible explanation for why the other incidents were faked but this shelling and death was real."

      The faked incidents would make the NATO narrative more plausible. If as is claimed by the West- Syria is targeting "civilians", but, you can't produce any real video you produce fake videos.

      "Why the hell would she be right in the middle of the battle if her goal was simply to produce propaganda? "

      For the simple reason that here goal may not have been entirely to produce propaganda. She may have been feeding information to certain individuals to aid the rebels.

      Someone left this link at an earlier post. It makes clear that NATO had journalists(spooks), on the ground, feeding intel to them

      http://libyanfreepress.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/general-bouchard-acknowledges-that-natos-informants-in-libya-were-journalists/

      " “The intelligence came from many sources, including the media who were on the ground and provided us with a lot of information regarding the intentions and the location of the ground forces.”

      Marie Colvin fits the journalist/spook label to a tee

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    7. Okay. That's a plausible theory.

      But why do they need someone one the ground feeting intel to them. Can't they do it by other communication device?

      And why use a higher profile perp, like a supposed journalist, to convey this information rather than a less publicly known person?

      They had satellite phones while others supposedly were without power and cell service. Why use Colvin to relay information?

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    8. Syrian television has accused Western media of using fake reports about the Syrian American Council and claiming it was saying things it wasn't (seen near the end of this video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x32WliYSk_M&feature=related (I'm trying to access the SAC directly but am having trouble--they seem to oppose Assad).

      Wouldn't be a stretch to similarly plant reports about the Red Cross or Syrian government in the press. Heck, after following this saga on blogs like this, one really sees how much we are being lied to and how easy it is to overwhelm the truth.

      So thanks Penyy!

      Has anyone heard what Syrian authorities said about this incident?

      Frankly, the Syrians have proved themselves to be more accurate sources than the West so before we listen to any claim from the West we should look there.

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  5. Penny, that video reminds me of this one of Danny the activist staging a medical drama for CNN Truth About Danny Abdul-Dayem

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    1. PS Danny was the patriot who a few months ago appealed for help from anyone even Israel! Danny pleads for help

      For more leaked videos showing the activists in operation (including the fake bombing of the oil terminal) see the Youtube channel and website of 'Syrian Youths' who on the face of it are a group of real Syrians trying to fight against the western media bullshit.

      "Thanks to Rafik Lutif for the leaked footage. Thanks for the terrorists for being stupid enough to film everything."

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    2. I am going to bookmark that thanks freethinker

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    3. Busted!

      Searching CNN for a retraction or explanation and I see crickets . . .

      There is no doubt now that the Western media and their Arab Toadies are complicit in creating U.S. propaganda--going so far as to air fake events.

      This is as conclusive as it will ever get. And those of us that were able to use logic and analyze the public facts and figure it out should be commended and know that we are using the right approach.

      And now we should all adjust our assumptions to take into account the fact that the elite media is producing fake news and propaganda to promote war and elite interests.

      This is huge. So of course we won't hear a peep about it in the mainstream press.

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  6. Interlude--

    Please open your eyes
    Try to realise
    I found out today we're going wrong
    We're going wrong

    Please open your mind
    See what you can find
    I found out today we're going wrong
    We're going wrong

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow, my arms were getting tired just watching Ginger Baker keeping that consistent drum beat
      That was very good

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    2. Glad you liked it :)

      It benefits greatly from being played on a system with big speakers (or good cans) as their is a lot of rumbling bass.

      Delete
  7. Red Cross spokesman Bijan Farnoudi is being goaded on twitter...he ducks the criticism...
    https://twitter.com/#!/Bijan77
    In #Homs the status quo remains. No access for #ICRC or Syrian RC to #BabaAmr for now. We are staying put, hoping to move in ASAP.
    5:10 PM - 3 Mar 12
    1AB3 ‏ @1AB3
    @Bijan77 @icrc_english With the actions of the #west you remain silent, whereas with #Syria we are informed of your every intricate movement

    Bijan Farnoudi Bijan Farnoudi ‏
    @Bijan77
    @1AB3 if u follow our public com, u will c that we r very balanced.The world just chooses 2 listen more in some instances & less in others.

    8:19 PM - 3 Mar 12 via Twitter for iPhone ·

    1AB3 ‏ @1AB3
    @Bijan77 @icrc_english The narrative must change, some cannot be allowed to act with impunity, it reinforces the doctrine of might is right

    1AB3 1AB3 ‏ @1AB3
    @Bijan77 @icrc_english With an authoritative source, then evil deeds wld not go unchallenged whoever committed them, even if it's the #west
    9:06 PM - 3 Mar 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

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  8. It makes sense, sadly, that aid cannot go into Homs until the area is secure.

    For one thing it would be a huge PR coup for the west if some of the aid workers get taken down by NATO goons
    It could be spun as something else...
    Also, the aid has to go to the people who have been held under seige in Homs by the NATO terrorists, that is the civilian population

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  9. Penny, you keep bringing valuable points. Keep going we are reading.

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  10. CBC is doing a masterful job of pro war propaganda on Syria.
    Today's new word.........Depravity. Canada wants more war! Shame.

    I see the Americans are now using classic simplistic reverse psychology to sell the Syrian war. By positioning both Obomba and Hitlery as gutless pacifist Democrat wimps who refuse to rescue the poor poor Syrian people from their evil government, they will make us demand this war!
    The greasiest CBC story helps us to understand why.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/03/01/f-vp-petricic-syria.html

    Glad this site continues to expose the lies on Syria, well done!

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    1. Obama and Hilary gutless on war, not a way in hell
      They love wanton bloodshed as well as any other psycho in power

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    2. Unfamiliar with reverse psychology?

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    3. No.

      I get it, completely, perception management.

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  11. Paul Conroy speaks BBC 4 March..
    Mr Conroy said that the bombardment of Homs will be judged by history as a massacre comparable to those in Rwanda or Srebrenica.

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    1. Conroy is full of shit
      While I will concur that in Rwanda there was a massacre bordering on genocide.... or holocaust if I may

      Srebrenicia, not so sure of

      Either way Conroy is spinning hard to promote an agenda isn't he?

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    2. A million dead like in IRAQ. THAT is a massacre. Not the numbers, but the perps that determine what a crime is right?

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  12. Those creepy Avaaz types at the Guardian make me vom...not only is the fakery staring them and us in the face, they actually promote it to those with perhaps less time to analyse the nonsense deeply. Yet these same journalists fill volumes about flaky secret evidence used to invade Iraq by Bush Blair & Co. Go figure..(I can't, but they did it in Libya too, so consistent)
    For instance, this faked s..t is being tweeted by the VDC (Violence Documentating Centre in Syria) and retweeted by someone influential close to the Guardian:
    Kyoto Mystery ‏ @ArabSpringFF
    Interview with one of Assad's captured hired thugs. youtube.com/watch?v=N19htB… (With English subtitles)
    Retweeted by Brown Moses
    5:03 PM - 4 Mar 12

    In fact the stopbloodshed11 YouTube channel is full is this sort of stuff. And our "liberal intellectual" press is promoting it.

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    1. Lots of good comments from you Felix.

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    2. Felix, you seem pretty disgusted by the Guardian, and indeed they are venal, just like the BBC and Channel-4 News. It sounds like you are (have been) left-leaning and are just starting to open your eyes. If so I know how you feel - I used to be an avid Guardianista and thought the sun shone out of Jon Snow's arse. The simple truth is that all MSM is controlled, whether by Zionist owners or by NGOs like the CFR and Chattam House (Royal Institute for International Affairs, CFR's daddy).

      The left-wing are especially dangerous as they literally are the wolf in sheep's clothing - see the Fabian Society's logo and window The left pretend to be warm, kind, caring, egalitarian and everything that is good, but stray beyond the politically correct and you'll find they are just fascists. And don't believe that fascists are somehow the opposite of communists/socialists - that is a false dialectic. Why was Karl Marx funded by bankers and how did a 'pauper' get a huge tomb in High Grove Cemetery?

      If I've misunderstood and you are an old hand then apologies, but then why so naive about the Guardian?

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    3. "I've worked in many war zones - I've never seen or been in shelling like this," the Sunday Times photographer told Sky News from a hospital bed in central London. (Reuters, 3 March.

      Trouble is freethinker,you have to work it out for yourself, which needs time. I keep thinking about the film Alien and our msmedia journalists. They all have the alien inside them. The Guardian is a very important propaganda tool, and is, like the banks, too important to fail..hence the open access. (You haven't answered the Iraq conundrum) I don't vote, it's rubbish as Ali G said. Perhaps I'm naif.

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  13. See also ...Mohja Karf of University of Arkensas @ProfKahf

    Exchange here about the faked videos.....

    Kyoto Mystery ‏ @ArabSpringFF
    State TV claimed they had infilitrated with Baba Amr media group and got secret recordings, but all this stuff was live streamed months ago.

    Brown Moses ‏ @Brown_Moses
    @ArabSpringFF I saw some apologists going on about that earlier, do you have any old links to the same footage I can rub in their faces?

    Kyoto Mystery ‏ @ArabSpringFF
    @Brown_Moses Here's the original: bambuser.com/v/2339510 at just after 10:00

    10:17 PM - 4 Mar 12 via web ·

    Brown Moses ‏ @Brown_Moses
    @ArabSpringFF Thanks, thinking about it the people posting the SANA bullshit are idiots so they won't believe it's real anyway.

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  14. I was wondering what Arwa Damon was up to.. ah, that's what, quoting Avaaz, Ricken Patel, etc.. Might have guessed. https://twitter.com/#!/arwaCNN.

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    1. Ah, the propaganda is getting more clever.

      I love how they assume the drone is Syrian rather than Western.

      And as you note, CNN simply passes on "activist" numbers without mentioning the Danny incident that aired on CNN.

      I don't think CNN has even addressed the fact they put out fake "opposition activist" videos. Yet here they are uncritically repeating the propaganda.

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    2. they also make a big thing of a fuzzy picture of a helicopter in the sky (where)...this is also a Libyan repeat programme , Benghazi Feb 2011. Same script, different speck of helicopter in sky...

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  15. Arwa is a complete joke. Probably the most unprofessional of them all, unless you count Lara logan.

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  16. "I fled through tunnel as shells rained down" Paul Conroy, on his motorcycle ride to freedom.....Sunday Times (paywall)) He also claimed wounded reporters were warned by a member of the Red Crescent not to get in an ambulance sent to rescue them (Guardian). Nice photo accompanying ST article..."visited in hospital by family friend Joss Stone"

    See also Daily Telegraph.David Cameron accuses Syrian regime of 'medieval barbarity' ...
    The [UK] Foreign Office will send researchers to the region next week to begin this process by interviewing victims. It will also start training Syrian activists on how to collate legally admissible evidence. [for the ICC no doubt]
    No comment.... "researchers"...."training"... "activists"..."evidence"

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  17. Thierry Meyssan of Voltairenet presents an interesting account of The journalist-combatants of Baba Amr

    He links to an earlier video of Bouvier and Conroy than I had seen before that shows Bouviers lower left leg (up to just past the knee) in a dressing - no plaster or improvised splints. So it would appear likely that she had lower-leg flesh wounds but quite clearly NOT a shattered femur (thigh-bone). Meyssan contends that at this point the players from 3 factions came together, later to perpetuate a greater propaganda fraud. These players being: Bouvier & Daniels-DGSE, Conroy-MI6 and the NATO puppets of the 'Free Syrian Army'. Clearly the NATO puppets are controlled by the western intelligence agencies including MI6,CIA,DGSE,Mossad etc but its likely the low level operatives making the videos would not have prior knowledge of these spooks masquerading as journalists.

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    1. Thanks freethinker. Very interesting. It is instructive to look back to Libya for pointers. Note that before the NFZ,two separate alleged kidnapping of western journalists occurred in March 2011, one in the east one in the west. Both sets were mysteriously released and tales emerged of torture and maltreatment. I never understood what caused the release - no prior negotiation. In one group of 4 you find Tyler Hicks, Anthony Shadid & Co (with Paul Conroy there with the group, but NOT kidnapped) (see here and across the country, 3 Journalists (actually two + one other who was NOT a journalist as we know one) Names here Check the latter out...

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  18. "summary executions - my son's throat was cut, he was 12..." BBC report (0700 ET). exclusive from a road "outside Homs" from Paul Wood. "whoever is taken at a checkpoint will be killed they took our husbands.. they'll slaughter them like sheep... " "On Friday troops took 36 en route from one district killing them all."
    BBC Reporter: Can such horror stories be true? "These men defected from an elite army unit...a Lt gave us the orders - shoot at anything that moes vivilian or military , you shoot at it.. An old man was arrested...made to kneel...shot him..."
    BBC: The outside world will want proof.

    this is to apply pressure on Russia....and Mike Gapes UK MP is invoking Srebrenica and Rwanda..
    See also.

    Refugees in the (NYT) The official, Jean Paul Cavalieri, a representative with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees agency based in Lebanon, told Reuters that the agency had been warned by its teams in Syria and the local authorities to expect between 1,000 and 2,000 refugees. A local official in northern Lebanon said at least 12 families had crossed into the region in recent days. Turkish officials have also spoken of an increased flow of refugees, as teams of activists and smugglers have guided growing numbers of fleeing civilians toward several camps in Turkey

    (no sign of it, and the Saudis are now advocating arming the opposition)

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    1. Mike Gapes MP (Labour opposition)..."systematically massacring civilians"

      Delete
  19. ‘Rebels killed Western journalists in Syria, not Assad army’

    "According to a source working for the office of the medical examiner in Syria, a nail was found in the skull of US journalist Marie Colvin, which proves she was killed by a handmade bomb.

    The source added that Syrian doctors have not removed the nail from Colvin’s head so that US coroners can also find the real cause of her death." [...]

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    1. and right now in ivory towers at CBC and CNN, the suits debate whether to run with..........

      Assad Using Nails to Kill Civilians
      or
      Barbaric Syrian Troops Plant Nail in Head of Pirate Hero White Woman

      Delete
    2. This conveniently explains the conflicting stories because now we see the insurgents had a motive to lie about her injuries. Since it blames the insurgents for her death people will stop asking further questions--on both sides. Most people will only remember the anti-Assad propaganda from her death and few will notice this detail. So mission accomplished for the West.

      Please notice it is an anonymous source from a Syrian medical examiner's office that confirms these details. Why is the source anonymous? Doesn't the Syrian government want to talk about this if it proved the rebels killed her? Why would they release this detail anonymously like this? Why was the previous detail released in twitter by the Red Cross guy?

      But it sounds like we will get an autopsy? This whole thing stinks already so they are going to have to work hard to convince me, it's not like they can't fake an autopsy and burial after all--the perps have done this in the past.

      I'm sorry for being so cynical and I'm not trying to pick a fight it's just I've learned I haven't been cynical enough and I want to use these alert links to work through the details. And the pattern I see is that this stuff is completely faked so this detail is hard for me to believe.

      Oh, also notice how this detail once again establishes the (probably false) fact that the insurgents have home made bombs. I took issue with the Hicks article in the NYT for this same reporting. But Meyssan reports the rebels had anti tank missiles and I saw Syrian television from December where they showed a captured insurgent weapons cache that had advanced explosives, like C-4 if I remember. I couldn't find this video the other day but I now presume this to be true and one would also assume this one cache, while quite large, was probably not the cache of rebel weapons. Indeed, Meyssan reported huge stockpiles.

      If Marie Colvin was close enough to a rebel bomb that it killed her then she was most likely an adviser (and not just psy ops), in which case she would be using the more advanced explosives the rebels most likely had and not nails (and these explosives probably came in via chopper, etc., rather than horseback as Hicks would have us believe).

      Delete
    3. that should read: "the captured cache was probably not the only cache of weapons the rebels had."

      Delete
    4. Anonymous 1:35

      I did a post way back on nail bombs, there had been an earlier claim by the "rebels" that the Syrian troops were using nail bombs, I discussed why this was completely bogus

      And yes, indeed, if Colvin was killed by a nail bomb
      she was without a doubt killed by the NATO armed terrorists
      --which explains why they (rebels) would not give her body up to the IRC
      --which explains why the rebels buried her via Youtube
      to hide their own crime

      http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2011/12/syria-from-nail-bombs-to-israel-and-all.html

      From Nail bombs to israel and all points in between

      quoting from that post

      "Which leads me to wonder if there was a nail bomb at all?
      Or just who was using the nail bomb?

      Was the person claiming to be wounded by the "nail bomb", the person attempting to use one?

      This makes more sense to me, as I will explain.
      The so called "nail bomb" seems to have a long history of use, but, not by governmental forces or armies. They would have no need to use a 'nail bomb'.
      So who would use a nail bomb?
      Let's see..... the patsy destabilizer type would find a real good use for them."

      and you can read the rest at the link

      Delete
    5. Penny,

      I agree that it is unlikely Syrian insurgents will use a nail bomb. In the "mission" that Tyler Hicks describes, they are attacking a column of tanks with one home made bomb and a bunch of rifles. I'm no expert but this seems really stupid. It seems the Syrian Army uses tanks, etc. so it doesn't make sense that they would use nail bombs--that is more suited for terrorist actions in crowded civilian areas.

      I would think they would make shaped charges and try to penetrate the tanks, or use the anti-tank missiles Messyan describes.

      Hicks' pictures look staged. A small boy is looking nonchalantly at them as the whole group clusters around one locations and shoots at the tanks we never see.

      Anyway, the below videos show the insurgents had better weapons and the whole attack would have looked much different than what they are telling us/showing us:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFiZti5RqlY


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupTCxH6I-8

      I can't find the really impressive video I saw with the blocks of C-4 (I think).

      The most logical explanation is that Colvin, like all the rest of these people, are actors that aren't going too close to the actual battles. Occasionally they have to fake a death to really convince people. And so of course they want us to believe Colvin is a battle-hardened adventure seeking journalist--it will help sell her lies. They also add nice touches like what we heard in the video explaining her eye patch--foreshadowing her own future death.

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    6. I think it is likely the rebels has all manner of weapons, supplied and otherwise.
      For this to work as a psyop they have to be using home made crap also, along with their brand new shiny stuff

      Delete
  20. Paul Conroy speaks BBC 4 March..
    Mr Conroy said that the bombardment of Homs will be judged by history as a massacre comparable to those in Rwanda or Srebrenica'
    ===================

    thatd be thegenocide Kagame and genocide and orghan trafficaker KLA...the west has lost its moral compass when they start supporting monsters like this.

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  21. Gosh Brian I hadn't thought about Paul Kagame in years.....

    He was trained in the US, I believe?
    Pretty sure I have some stuff on him here, somewhere??

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