Saturday, June 30, 2012

Lavrov: Russia ready to share data on Turkish Jet- Failed Talks

Updates on the Turkish Jet below

Some blackmail ?

Russia possesses “objective observation data” concerning the downing of a Turkish jet off the Syrian coast one week ago and is prepared to present it, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said at a press conference in Geneva on Saturday.

“We have our objective observation data and we are prepared to present it,” Lavrov said.
An F-4 fighter jet of the Turkish Air Force was shot down by Syrian air defenses on June 22 and crashed in the Mediterranean Sea. Syrian authorities said the jet had violated its airspace while Turkish officials claimed it was attacked over international waters.

Turkey responded by moving air defense weapons close to the Syrian border.
“The main thing now is not to allow any incident to ignite passions in one or another direction,” Lavrov said.
Since Turkey was going to start the overtproxy war on Syria, has Lavrov issued a warning to Turkey to keep their "passions" in check?

Thanks for this one, Freethinker! Syria, Turkey and Russia: The Phantom of the Stealth Fleet
Is there a connection between what Lavrov is claiming about "sharing data" and the above linked story?

Updates begin here- More on the alleged Turkish Jet, today, the narrative originating with Israel.
Times of Israel-
The story quotes an Israeli air force source as suggesting Russia had a hand in the incident: “We would not be surprised if these Russian experts, if they didn’t push the button, at least were beside the Syrian officers who did it.”
Syria’s Information Minister Omran al-Zubi said last week that Syrian soldiers who downed the plane may have thought it was an Israeli aircraft.
Initial reports on the Turkish Jet included reports of it being an Israeli jet and as I mentioned in a previous comment, LVB had mentioned the jet had possibly been squawking Israeli code.
There was a curious little sentence in a DEBKA report 

"This was also the first time in five years any weapons system with Israeli manufacturing input had faced a Russian weapon acquired by Syria."

You know when the last time was?

"September 6, 2007, when Israeli fighter-bombers demolished the Iranian-North Korean-built nuclear reactor in the northern Syrian town of Al-Kibar"
The part about the reactor is Israeli spin from where I sit. However Israeli bombers did get through Syrian defences at that time.

Questions: Is the Israeli "source" doing some damage control? Was the Turkish jet, actually Turkish? Was it Israeli? Was it emitting Israeli code? If so would this demonstrate a level of collusion between Israel and Turkey that PM Erdogan can not afford to have public? Given his acquiescence to Israel on the Mavi Marmara?

Talks in Geneva fail:

The U.S. backed away from insisting that the plan explicitly exclude President Bashar al-Assad from any role in a new government, hoping the concession would encourage Russia to put greater pressure on its longtime ally

"There is a credible alternative to the Assad regime," she said.

Moscow had refused to back a provision that would call for Mr. al-Assad to step aside, insisting that outsiders cannot order a political solution for Syria and accusing the West of ignoring the darker side of the Syrian opposition. 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov underlined that the plan does not require Mr. al-Assad’s ouster, saying there is 'no attempt in the document to impose on the Syrian people any type of transitional process."

Kofi Annan said ""I will doubt that the Syrians who have fought so hard to have independence ... will select people with blood on their hands to lead them," he said."

In reference to who exactly?

The Britain based Syrian observatory for human rights, said following the agreement that "no member of the Syrian opposition will accept to be part of a transitional government while Assad is still in power."

"Assad’s staying in power will mean the continuation of the bloodshed in Syria"

Russia: Assad not required to step down

 An international conference held in Geneva Saturday accepted a UN-brokered peace plan for Syria but left open whether the country's president could be part of a transitional government.
Russia's foreign minister said that the UN-brokered peace plan for Syria agreed on by major powers does not require the ouster of President Bashar Al Assad.
Changes in Syria's government have been ongoing and a diversity of persons are already involved in that government.

Regarding the death of New York Times journalist Anthony Shadid?
Came across this and thought it interesting

Did the New York Times Lead Anthony Shadid to His Death?

The narrative presented by the media seemed 'off '


  1. "I will doubt that the Syrians who have fought so hard to have independence ... will select people with blood on their hands to lead them," he said."

    Luckily for the Syrian people the Saudi backed insurgents have no blood on their hands at all. And that their Saudi patrons have the strongest democratic credentials.

    1. Hi Lysander:

      Yes, lucky for them. Indeed.

      And I think your being facetious. Nah, I am quite certain you are being facetious Lysander
      Thanks for stopping by!

  2. Thanks for the Shadid piece, Penny. It still seems "off" in a different direction, and just as crazy as the Conroy/Bouvier/Colvin tales.
    "[cousin Dr Edward Shadid of Oklahoma City,home of Joshua Landis, Syria Comment blog, Director, Centre for Middle East Studies - University of Oklahoma] provided details about the immediate circumstances of Anthony’s death that he said were omitted from the Times narrative."

    So how does he know?

    1. He's got "friends" in the region that he anonymously cites in his blog.

      Someone at Naked Capitalism recommended him after I brought up Syria issues. I told them I was suspicious of him and that he seems like Juan Cole and Angry Arab in the way he cites "friend" in the region to support his points. All three of these professors use anonymous "friends" to criticize the "regimes" in the Middle East that are under threat by the West. They all claim to be independent, split the middle profs.

      Which is why I suspect all three profs to be perps. Plus, we know Juan Cole was working for the CIA.

    2. It's interesting to see the responses I get on Naked Capitalism when talking about Syria and media fakery and the West's designs on the Middle East.

      I am certain that there are disinformation agents active on that site as well as other similar sites. I am highly dubious of all these people that suggest 'limited hangout' sites or 'controlled opposition.' Sure, many people are going to be genuinely duped because of the media is totally controlled . . . but the timing and number of references make me suspicious.

      For instance, just today someone is pushing Angry Arab and Michael Parenti:

      On reddit r/conspiracy where I used to get a lot of information, I keep seeing Chris Hedges being pushed and he's a favorite target of mine because I feel like I made some unique discoveries about him possibly being a perp.

    3. Hey Felix;
      Your welcome, I thought it was interesting. Curious?
      But, I just don't know?

    4. WWM are you talking about Josh Landis?

  3. Kofi Annan said ""I will doubt that the Syrians who have fought so hard to have independence ... will select people with blood on their hands to lead them," he said."

    Kofi Annan, himself has family connection to Zionist Jewry. His Swedish wife (his second), Nane Annan has Jewish ancestry. Her mother Nina Logergren was a sister to the acclaimed Swedish diplomat from the industrialist and banking clan. Raoul Wallenberg, a man hailed in the Zionist Press for his actions in Hungary during the Second World War when he was supposed to have helped tens of thousands of Jews escaping the Nazis.

    So, don’t expect any unbaised reporting on Syrian unrests from Kofi Annan.

    1. Thanks for the background hans
      I wouldn't dream of expecting anything unbiased from Kofi.

  4. esp for those who think turkey is not involved:
    Syria: Saudi admits "protesters" had weapons from the start

  5. Syrian Kurds have good reason to oppose the attempted subversion and stand in solidarity against the foreign backed insurgents which brand themselves Free Syrian Army. What is euphemistically called Free Syrian Army, is in fact a construct with a core consisting of US, NATO, GCC, and Turkish backed Al Qaeda brigades, armed brigades of the Muslim Brotherhood, as well as NATO, GCC, and Turkish Special Forces. The people as well as the political and military fractions of Kurdistan and Syria are aware of, that there is nothing good to be expected from the Free Syrian Army, and in particular, that there is nothing positive to be expected from Turkey, which contrary to Syria maintains a policy of rigorous oppression of Kurdish ethnicity, identity, culture and political influence.

    1. "Free Syrian Army, is in fact a construct with a core consisting of US, NATO, GCC, and Turkish backed Al Qaeda brigades, armed brigades of the Muslim Brotherhood, as well as NATO, GCC, and Turkish Special Forces."

      And others

  6. I just saw a terrible video on the news of an explosion right in the middle of a funeral procession in a town outside of Damascus. It was awful and the CYBC showed the whole thing! People crying and saying 'God is Great!' as 'pieces' of 'something' scattered all over the place in a cloud of yellowish smoke!

    This might be the delayed 'reaction' we expected to occur on Friday - as someone mentioned here - just as they meet in Geneve apparently this happened...It looks VERY bad I'm afriad.

    CYBC also reported on Turkish reports of many F-16s being sent out to 'check' the Syria border!


    1. Hey Marie

      Just went to check Sana and I don't see anything at all about it yet, and it was supposed to have happened last night?

      Looking more, there is some very conflicting stuff out there on it

      First we have troops allegedly firing on mourners and then we have a car bombing?

      All at the same funeral?

      There is a disconnect

  7. Russia's stance doesn't impress Veronika Krasheninnikova, Director General of the Institute for Foreign Policy Research and Initiatives in Moscow.
    Washington's road to Iran goes through Syria (Op-Ed)

    The most appalling element here is that Russia seems to have fallen again into the Washington’s trap. Notwithstanding all the right declarations and efforts, at the end of the day Russia nevertheless signed a tacit agreement to abandon Syria, similar to the abstention vote on “no-fly zone” for Libya that allowed Washington to launch strikes.
    For Russia, once again falling into Washington’s trap will have dire consequences. On the international arena, Moscow loses precious credibility with its strategic allies, with Iran in particular. Geopolitically, Syria’s fall will speed up American’s relentless push across the Middle East into the Caucasus and Central Asia, consolidating its infrastructure on Russia’s southern military front and putting a definitive end to the prospects of the Eurasian Union.

    1. This is very well said.

      I agree with her completely.

    2. Interesting read Freethinker.

      There have been so many articles, with so many interpretations.... even after the news first broke of the agreement there were hundreds of divergent headlines..

      Just an example from RT:

      "Annan comes up with a “6-point peace plan” that required government troops to “immediately” return to their barracks while the terrorists had to only “commit to stop the fighting.” In fact, Annan’s plan gave time to arm and train insurgents, to build up their terrorist capabilities, while gearing up western public support to war.

      Indeed Anna did come up with the plan, but, did the Syrian army comply?

      There was never any indication that the Army did stop fighting. In fact that was a common complaint about the Syrian troops. They had not stopped fighting, they were still shelling etc.,

      So, sure there was an agreement, but, it was never complied with

      "As if that were not enough, Annan’s “peace plan” № 2 requires prompt “free and fair multiparty elections”

      Which Syria has held most recently. And the parliament is more diverse then ever.

      Though the west did not take them seriously at all

      I notice Russia is meeting with some members of the opposition this month.
      One is the newest Kurdish figure head of the SNC, that "selection" was done for appeasement of all the opposition groups
      So it is an interesting choice.

      Is Russia hedging in advance?
      Hard to say.
      So, I am reserving judgement at this point.

    3. LVB: You had said that the jet may have been "squawking" Israeli codes or something along that line
      If you don't mind, could you clarify what that means?

    4. Hey Penny,

      Yes, it is possible, being that Turkey is NATO and has the shared NIS (NATO Identification System), which is used by NATO member nation aircraft.

      Here's a pretty good explanation of what IFF systems do, to spare you a really long post...

      And while people wouldn't usually imagine Israel and a Muslim nation like Turkey joining together in an act of conspiracy such as this (to use IFF as a form of deception to provoke further hostilities), I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in this world.

      There are certainly a lot of strange bedfellows lately when it comes to geopolitics, aren't there? ;)

  8. If this agreement was so favourable to the NATO backed destabilizers and the SNC, why did the reject it?

  9. Yeah, I'm talking about Joshua Landis.

    I don't mean to say Joshua Landis' "friend" is providing the information re Anthony Shadi'sd death (Edward Shadid, the cousin, is referring to confidential information--I too find this strange).

    I was just pointing out that someone pointed me to Joshua Landis' blog a few weeks ago (first I heard of it) and I noticed the similarity between his blog and Juan Cole's blog and Angry Arab's blog.

    All three criticize western meddling in the region but all three also advance (often w/ anonymous sources) the Western view that the Middle East "regimes" are so dictatorial they warrant overthrow.

  10. The whole Article is fail. Israeli attacked in 2007, Syria ordered modern SAM Systems after that case and the said SAM system that blasted the Intruder was delivered in 2008:
    Get your facts straight.

    1. Who are you responding to?
      In reference to what?

      FYI: wikipedia isn't really known for it's facts

  11. Penny,

    I agree with you there. Wikipedia seemed like a cool thing at first, but it has sadly become THE first (and sometimes ONLY) place that people look to find "the truth", which is a very big mistake.

    It seems obvious that it has become a very convenient and powerful tool of the elite to spread disinformation and influence the masses, with no real acountability when the "facts" that are presented there are quite biased, and often just dead wrong.

    As if the "legitimate" media is any more accurate or ever held accountable for their outright incompetence, globalist bias and deliberate lies of declaration and omission.

    Know what I mean?? ;)

    1. Yah, it did seem like a good idea at first...
      The concept that made it so appealing is it's downfall.

      When I use wikipedia it is only for the most basic stuff and not much more