Thursday, October 4, 2012

Turkey's attack on Syria ongoing. Domestic Parliamentary Approval- Russia blocks UN

Update # 1- Turkey has the approval of it's Parliament to expand attacks on Syria if necessary
Update # 2-  UN Action

I will keep updating this post as time permits- For background info check the post from yesterday when this incident began Turkey strikes Syria in "retaliation". Or as distraction? NATO meets
Turkey just keeps killing Syrian civilians via shells or proxies.

Turkey is demanding action at the UN -Turkey seeks Security Council action after Syria attack

Turkey demanded that the UN Security Council take action against Damascus on Wednesday
Turkey has never been shy about mounting cross-border incursions and shelling of its own when pursuing rebels in neighboring Iraq, and has angered Syria by hosting rebels opposed to Assad’s regime.

Of course France is right in the thick of it- France wants quick UN condemnation of Syria attack on Turkey

"I want and hope that the entire international community, in particular through the Security Council, passes a clear and swift message that condemns the Syrian authorities strongly," French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said in a statement.
 With Monsieur Fabius going so far as to spout this bullshit  
"This violation of international law constitutes a serious threat to global security and peace," 

What threatens global security is NATO world army nations support for mercs and covert ops destabilizing and destroying nations such as Syria and Libya, to name just two.

Statement from NATO

In a statement released following an extraordinary meeting of the NATO Council at the level of ambassadors, NATO said that "as stated on 26 June 20l2, the Alliance continues to closely follow the situation in Syria. In view of the Syrian regime-s recent aggressive acts at NATO-s southeastern border, which are a flagrant breach of international law and a clear and present danger to the security of one of its Allies, the North Atlantic Council met today, within the framework of Article 4 of the Washington Treaty, and discussed the continuous shelling of locations in Turkey adjacent to the Turkish-Syrian border by the Syrian regime forces."
"The most recent shelling on 3 October 20l2, which caused the death of five Turkish citizens and injured many, constitutes a cause of greatest concern for, and is strongly condemned by, all Allies," the NATO statement said.

"In the spirit of indivisibility of security and solidarity deriving from the Washington Treaty, the Alliance continues to stand by Turkey and demands the immediate cessation of such aggressive acts against an Ally, and urges the Syrian regime to put an end to flagrant violations of international law," the NATO statement also said.
 Russia warns NATO to stay away from Syria
Russia told NATO and world powers on Tuesday they should not seek ways to intervene in Syria’s civil war or set up buffer zones between rebels and government forces.

Moscow further called for restraint between NATO-member Turkey and Syria, where violence along their shared border has strained relations between the former allies.

Tensions have flared since a mortar round fired from inside Syria struck the territory of Turkey. Ankara has threatened to respond if the strike were repeated.

When asked by Interfax if Moscow worried whether the tense border situation could prompt NATO to intervene to defend Turkey, its easternmost member, Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov warned against any such step.

“In our contacts with partners in NATO and in the region, we are calling on them not to seek pretexts for carrying out a military scenario or to introduce initiatives such as humanitarian corridors or buffer zones.”


Turkey renews strikes on Syria and gains Parliamentary approval for strike expansion

Turkey’s parliament gave authorisation on Thursday for military operations outside Turkish borders if the government deemed them necessary.
The government had sought parliamentary approval to send soldiers to foreign countries in a memorandum which said that “aggressive action” by Syria’s armed forces against Turkish territory posed a serious threat to national security.
TRT television reported that a military battalion based on the border town of Akcakale resumed striking Syrian targets across from the frontier overnight and that shelling continued Thursday morning.

Turkey hits Syria with South Korean Howitzer-for the weapons buffs

Turkish (L) and Syrian Independence flags are seen between the border gates Akcakale of Turkey and Tel Abyad of Syria October 4/2012

Turkey allows the flag of their terrorist groups FSA to fly at the border gates??!!How very inflammatory of Turkey. Bad neighbours.

Turkey hit Syrian targets on Wednesday using the South Korean-designed T-155 Firtina howitzers, in retaliatory shelling of its southern neighbor.

Update #2:

Russia blocks UN draft condemning Syrian Turkey strike- Focus  Information Agency-  
United Nations. Russian objections to a draft UN statement condemning Syria's deadly shelling of Turkey sent the Security Council back into consultations, diplomats said Thursday, cited by AFP.
The draft had been expected to be approved by a "silence procedure" -- the text is considered adopted if no country objects -- but "the Russians broke the silence," Britain ambassador Mark Lyall Grant told reporters.
He did not give details on the Russian objections.

Russia proposes diluted UN text on Syria attack in Turkey

 Russia on Thursday blocked the adoption of a draft statement condemning a deadly Syrian mortar attack on a Turkish town and proposed a weaker text that would call for "restraint" on the border without referring to breaches of international law.

Interesting..... "If adopted, the non-binding statement would also call on the two neighbors to "reduce tensions and forge a path toward a peaceful resolution of the Syrian crisis." 
The non-binding statement could then be applied to Turkey also? 

 The Russian drafts keeps some of the language in the original text proposed by Azerbaijan, and urges the Syrian government to investigate the attack.
Since we don't really know from whom the mortar originated? NATO mercs or Syrian Army?

Turkey claims Syria has apologized for the incident- 
Did Syria? Or is Turkey making this claim to save face? 

Syria has apologized through the United Nations for the mortar strike which killed five civilians in southeast Turkey on Wednesday and said such an incident would not be repeated, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Besir Atalay said on Thursday.

A statement from Syria was included in yesterday's post linked immediately below the video at the top of this post.


  1. In view of the Georgia developments yesterday and the kyrgz riots, today the news flow around Russia ratcheted up. Forst Russia is accused of an espionage ring linked to smuggling electronics (US charge). Also FSA has a three for: alleged proof that Russia was behind the shoot down of the Turkish plan; proof that a high ranking Russian general was killed in Syria (al arabiya)and confirmation that a hez official was killed in Syria fighting. Yesterday lavrov warned the reset wouldn't last forever. Recall romney is on the record saying russia the number 1 enemy. This all as nyt reporting the taliban negotiations are over. Meanwhile UN Ban saying for weeks the fighting could "spill over". Ergo set lebanon on fire. Iran apparently undergoing a cyber attack as the currency is also under siege with Al arabiya running an article practicly every day saying the sky is falling. Recall Iran imported something like 8 billion worth of gold in August from turkey. In the context of the aleppo fighting and the Syrian govt sending a text message to the fsa taunting them, the Turkish and egyptions and qatar are also angling for a fight. What to make of Saudi not showing up to the meeting. Egypt was just bought and paid for by loans from turkey (1b), Saudi (few billion) and qatar (billion plus). Us even in for 500m. Remeber the romeny debate on foreign policy arrives on 22 Oct. Obama under scrutiny for the libya attack by the right and left.

    1. Qatar is on the record a few days ago urging foreign intervention. Mursi may say no intervention but he is at theio spoint for rent. And he still has to ink the approx 5b IMF deal.

    2. Keep an eye on Venezuela elections. The currency is alos about to come under spec attack and the stories about the challenger are appearing with frequency (Latin spring).

  2. Anonymous: FSA has intelligence? From who? Turkey?
    I saw that and Russia is saying it is nonsense

    As for Venezuela, yah, noticed things were heating up there
    not surprisingly

    1. FSA intelligence claim here.

      No sourcing.

      More interesting following on the Russia/NATO theme are these stories:

      Al-Qaeda has been blamed for a recent series of forest fires across Europe, as the head of Russia's Federal Security Service claimed they were set by arsonists as part of the group's low-cost attack strategy. Recall the Greek Peninusla fires that led to the fall of the government.

      You might recall that there was a lot of suspicion about the Geek forest fires back in 2007

      Russia and Greece signed the....BURGAS/Alexandria pipeline deal

      Karamanlis resigned in 2009 (more fires)

      Recall Karamanlis was at the center (ie target) of a massive wiretapping scandal

      Per Wiki: Foreign and Greek media have raised United States intelligence agencies as the main suspects

      Fast forward back to present:

      Suspected Islamist militants killed four Russian policemen in an ambush in the restive North Caucasus province of Ingushetia on Wednesday, Interfax news agency quoted a law-enforcement source as saying.

      Justice Department said on Wednesday it had broken up an elaborate network aimed at illegally acquiring U.S.-made microelectronic components for Russian military and spy agencies.

      Dial back to the Russia fallout back in 2010

      Mark Lowenthal, a former senior CIA official, branded the operation "feckless".

      "So many of the things they seemed to be after you can find out by listening to the right radio station or reading the right newspaper... It doesn't say a lot about the smarts of the SVR [Russia's foreign intelligence service]."

      Even Russian experts were surprised by the methods employed by the team.

      "It sounds preposterous to me," Mikhail Lyubimov, a writer and former member of the SVR, told the paper. "We've never used illegals like this," he said, referring to spies posing as ordinary citizens instead of diplomats. "And it's a comedy to have 10 of them connected."

      Recall also that the Gareth Williams case occurred around the same time

      As you might recall there was a Russian connection here

      You might also recall that Britain just announced that it will launch a full inquiry into Litvinenko: UK Judge Says Litvinenko Inquest to Open in 2013

      Also noteworthy was the comment by russia last weke that they have full details on missile defense

      Is that related to this gent picked up in Germany (or the Canada scandal)



    2. Notice that the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights is now the main source for Syrian troop casualty figures. Ha. The Western media is totally promoting their figures for Syrian official dead now.

      They must have a direct line from God to their London apartment. The all seeing eye that gets accurate numbers from both sides.

      Also notice that the the Syrian Observatory UPPED the number of dead in the recent Aleppo blast. The Western media made a big deal that the number was greater than the "regimes" number. Imho, that's bait for people like us on this blog to use that number so they can get all sides citing the Syrian Observatory. Also, it makes people think the 'regime' are lying about the numbers and thus dehumanizes the act of terrorism against it.

    3. WWM

      Yah, well the Syrian Observatory, in the UK, have always been the providers of lots of "stats" and info for the western msm

      Perhaps it is divine intervention ;)
      What it really is though is spin.

      Good observation on the manipulative use of the "numbers"
      I have always found that with the SOfor "human rights" there were regularly exaggerating the numbers of victims in almost every circumstance
      It's definitely a push to make everything appear worse then it actually is. And it is dam bad enough!

      Also, it makes people think the 'regime' are lying about the numbers and thus dehumanizes the act of terrorism against it.

    The Turkish Parliament has passed a motion allowing the military to conduct cross-border raids into Syria


  4. Must see videos out of syria!!


    1. ty nys
      I will pop over there to see what you have up

    2. when you do you will have to see no less then my last 5 pages worth of posts..due to length of some..all explosive.. first page barely shows anything go into 2-3-4-5 and prepare yourself ..because videos i got up are absolutly shocking!!!or maybe someone who comments here can go borrow them from there and post them here lol (thats ok too wont name names ;)anyway all jokes aside see these..without going there that way you wont have to go thru 5 different pages,pls see these ..almost noone has seen this info yet..except shoah and uprooted whos already posted some of it..look..
      Leaked video shows who was really behind recent attack on Turkey(3 videos actually)

      videos and pics of mega protests all over turkey to protest erdogans war

      ali salehi minister of foreign affairs for iran geos into CFR

      international iran tribunal exposed as zionist imperial tool by one atendee and dissident

      fake pro fsa demo in turkey video

      video fsa kill a farmer burn his olive groves (3 videos) fsa cheering their attacks in allepo proud of it

      my new video on syria good link(not broken)the syria conspiracy-the zionists bloodthirst
      and you already know much much mre some links have mor ethen 1 video..anotehr is suicide fsa and much much more..again sis this hasnt been shown anywhere really..

  6. Well, this appears to be what we were waiting for. Full scale war. It's almost a relief even as I know it means fresh horror for many people.

    Two good sized military powers are now engaged. I don't see how Syria can let Turkey shell its troops. Syria has already been very measured it its response. Turkey is fomenting war in Syria. Syria has the right to defend itself from Turkey by counterattacking.

    This psy-op simply reversed the good guy and bad guy. Even though Syria was the aggrieved party and *could have/should have* attacked Turkey's military, it was Turkey that turned it around and faked an attack and then attacked Syria's military in retaliation. Neat trick. And then when the *international community* feigns outrage it only adds to the impression that Turkey is the aggrieve party.

    This woman noticed that there were a lot of events that have been recently been cancelled by world leaders: Interesting.

    I'm afraid it will escalate quickly from here as Syria will really have no choice. I would think it's in their best interest to counterattack really hard at some point--once they realize it's inevitable. They really have few options. It's like a group of bullies surrounding you and then pushing you and poking your chest progressively harder. Then they start striking you. You know where it's heading so your best option is some radical maneuver right in the beginning (e.g. crazily attack the weakest member of the gang and then run like hell).

    1. Some very good points, as always, Walt.

      I think this really all depends on how sincere and to what extent Russian and China come out forcefully to support and defend Syria against all this blatant NATO/US/CIA aggression.

      In this sense, Syria and its allies hold the most powerful cards. China, in that it "owns"oo the US in terms of the massive, unsustainable debt and the economy. Russia, on the other hand, can lay waste to the foreign invaders (led by al-CIAda) who have caused all of this trouble in Syria.

      On the other hand, if there are secret (and illegal) "back channel negotiations" ala Kissinger going on - say promising Russia and China this or that bribe for allowing Syria to be destroyed - then that will happen, with only a tiny bit of protest in the mass media, just for appearances.

      Russia and China certainly have the strength to call the US/NATO Empire's bluff - because the US is already way overcommitted, both in terms of $$$ (borrowed from China) and just the numbers of troops and equipment it would take to mount a serious attack on Syria AND Iran Iran, simultaneously - which is what it would be.

      Israel won't be much help either - in fact, they (meaning the Israeli regime, not people) are always a liability in terms of being any kind of a military partner.

      I suspect if you could chat very candidly with high ranking US Generals, they would tell you exactly that - "Israel is a pain in the ass and a major liability for the USA" - much like a very drunk and stupid girlfriend who goes around causing problems and picking fights with guys at bars, and then says "OH YEAH well my boyfriend will kick your ASS!!!" I'm sure you get the analogy lol.

      That's what the Israeli regime is, except for the fact that they also illegally have nuclear weapons - which actually makes them even more of a liability and a drunken, loose cannon. Israel would stand no chance at all in a war against Syria and Iran, not to mention all of the other groups who would be only too happy to join the battle against them - HezB and Hamas, etc. - which is why Israel can't and won't do anything other than maybe a quick sneak attack and then run away back home crying for help from the US and NATO.

      So, the simplest answer to this problem is painfully obvious - DON'T START A WAR THAT YOU CANNOT WIN. Unfortunately, the psychopaths in Tel Aviv, Brussels and DC are not known for being sane or rational when making these decisions that risk the lives and safety of everyone except themselves.

      Perhaps this equation would change a little if the globalist ruling elite warmongers were actually in direct danger of being bombed and shot like the rest of us, eh?

      You take away those underground bunkers and armoured limos and SUVs, and there would be a whole lot more balanced negotiation and compromises, instead of all this one-sided, heavy-handed bullying and covert proxy wars of aggression by the infamous US/EU/UK/UN/NATO globalist Empire.

    2. My operating assumption is that Russia and China are not sincere in defending Syria and Iran. I think they will allow both to fall into chaos and will probably both benefit from it.

      What I wonder about is Iran. Will Iran defend Syria? The media is focusing on Turkey's requests of NATO, well, what about Syria's request to Iran re their mutual defense agreements? Are they calling emergency meetings? Will Iran defend Syria from Turkey's ongoing attacks? I sometimes wonder if even Syria and Iran's leaders are as complicit as the Russian and Chinese leaders seem to be.

      If Iran and Syria are serious about defending themselves they may have to counterattack Turkey right now. Of course this will also bring in the U.S. and cause Iran to be attacked and widen the war. But I would think they have to know that is going to happen regardless so might as well try to do as much damage as possible and go on the offensive. They at least need to draw a line in the sand and take measures at mutual defense and thus prepare for war.

      I'm simply gaming out what a strategist from their side would do. There is no walking back from what Turkey is doing now. Iran has to also see the clear signs of what is to come. I can't see why a strategist would recommend sitting back and doing nothing. I can't see Syria's present strategy working much longer.

    3. LVB: funny analogy for Israel
      I have been thinking lately they have been acting like a bitch demanding girlfriend... Whine, whine, whine.

      Netanyahu and the bomb at the UN was so absurd, I guess you gotta keep it simple and dumbed down to scare the most people, but, that was bad

      As of right now I am wondering if Israel and Turkey cooked this up along with France.

      Despite Hillary's usual shrillness I found much more coming out of the French media today..
      It got me thinking

    4. Hey WWM

      I know you have always felt this way

      "My operating assumption is that Russia and China are not sincere in defending Syria and Iran. I think they will allow both to fall into chaos and will probably both benefit from it."

      And you know I disagree, there is much at stake here for Russia and China.
      That is the eventual encirclement, destabilization and destruction of both countries

      Did you happen to read my latest Georgia post?
      Everything that is happening to Syria is being done to Russia and has been being done for a long time now.

      Russia is very aware of this. If they let Syria and Iran fall, it will be just a matter of time for them. No back room deals will save them.

      I don't know what the right course of action is for Syria at this time
      However! I notice Turkey lied about Syria apologizing
      Which is really interesting? Why? Why after all the bullshit? Did someone warn them of potential consequences?
      If so, who?

  7. here's a few things to look at:
    -a video from SyrianGirlPartisan, she makes quite a few good points in the video- how/why did Turkey act so fast in retaliation, why no investigation, why contact NATO right away, etc. (she has a youtube channel and fb, will post those links as well, quite a lot of info, haven't looked thru it much yet.) "Turkey Syria Border Attack False Flag Planned in Advance by NATO"
    -she posted this article to her fb page, total WTF?!?
    -here's her fb and youtube

  8. Scott's got a good article up as well. A few more pieces for the puzzle... (thank you btw, much appreciate what y'all do!)

  9. I totally agree with Syrian Girl
    Which is why I put the "false flag" in my post yesterday. The whole scenario stunk to high heaven

    Turkey was way to quick to run to NATO and make demands of the UN.

    The problem with this whole scenario is who the hell encouraged Turkey to undertake this action

    It is also not lost on me that this occurred on the night of the Presidential debate in the US.

    I see Scott has linked to Landdestroyer and the Brookings institute paper

    Syria Girl mentions a scenario involving an attack involving Turkey and Israel in the Golan Heights

    This is a scenario I have brought up on more then one occasion

    The last time was in this post in September

    prior to that in July

    "Wouldn’t peace and reconciliation between Turkey and Israel be so swell for the global community? The dynamic duo (Keeping on with the batman theme) could then take on the dastardly Syrian government. Besides “war is peace”, right? Humanitarian intervention and all."

    The scenario I have envisioned hinges on a two front attack- Israel via the Golan
    Turkey through the border

    Turkey may in fact be softening the border up for this to happen

    An indicator of imminent attack may be the apology psyop

    No doubt this is a tense situation that requires watching

  10. haha, yes, i do remember that, now that you mention it, i had forgotten. not much to find funny in all this, but that part of the post is funny. god, it does the head in, it's such a mindfuck, they're all so duplicitous, it's hard to keep up with it, and so much to go back thru if i miss a day or two. you are such a warrior! (bad wording here, but y'know what i mean?)
    are you able to look at her fb page? who knows what all's there. there's a post she shared 16 hours ago, who knows when it was written, "Syrian spokesmen for the foreign ministry has said that Israeli seems to be building forces on the Golan heights." i haven't had a chance to look back much farther than that. Has that been reported anywhere? like i said it's hard to keep track man...:)

  11. It looks like some the Syrian border posts checking the inflow of 'FSA' insurgents are the target of the Turkish 'retaliatory' strikes:

    Syrian Soldiers Killed By Turkish Bombing Near Border


    In regards to Russian & Chinese aid, probably the best help that they could give at the moment is direct counters to the Western 'aid', & to strengthen the Syrian governments ability to provide basic services, ie. :-
    - to come to a mutual agreement in providing large scale food & medical supplies direct to the Syrian government - Russian grain supplies with Chinese money backstopping it, water purification equipment to help with sabotaged water mains, large scale medical supplies with aid workers, & other basic supplies which would help the Syrian small businesses keep going (bakers, shoemakers, etc.) & keep the basic functioning of the state happening, especially in stressed areas.

    (The Russians have already provided food & aid on several occasions, but the Chinese need to start backstopping it & it needs to go in larger quantities.)

    - specific small arms & communication equipment to specifically counter the western supplies & tactics. The Chinese & Russian military-industrial complexes would be very interested in seeing how well their gear does in tracking & jamming the sophisticated comm gear the west is supplying, & would also help them determine the picture on the ground in a lot more detail.
    Military small arms needed is precision sniper rifles such as the Orsis T-5000 & the KSVK 12.7mm, which are much superior to M-16 designated marksman rifles the military trained mercs with the FSA are using. They would be excellent to dealing with sniper based hit-&-run tactics the FSA are using without creating collateral damage, which is a key part of the 'FSA' strategy.

    It would also make them much more reluctant to engage - mercs don't like a fair fight, & even salafi's are reluctant to face sudden death - they're hit & run operators who can face a glorious 'martyrdom', but not anything resembling an even fight.
    Hezbollah sent them packing in very short order when the Saudi's sent them to try & push them out.

    1. But when it really mattered the Russians and Chinese were not there for them. Syria would be foolish to rely on them for help. They are better off assuming Russia and China have abandoned them.

      I can't find it now even though I'm sure there was better information about this on the internet at one point, but Israel and the West were said to have nixed the sale of advanced fighter jets to Syria and Iran (financed by Iran, I thought). Here's a Russian denial of this (that reads more like an admission) that pops up when I search now:

      Also, Russia has halted sales of new weapons to Syria, the opposite of what they should be doing if they wanted to help them, and especially if they had some sort of mutual defense posture with them:

      See this discussion that I linked to previously here that questions whether a country should rely on Russia:

      And that post mentions that Russia cancelled sales of the S-300 to Iran and now Iran makes its own cruise missile, the Ghader, so Iran has already learned that it must rely on itself and not Russia.

    2. So, it appears Turkey may indeed be taking out Syria's border security....

      I had seen news of fairly large shipments (IMO) of food and medicine going to Syria from Russia
      Had not seen anything from China

    3. WWM:
      going on recall... Russia may have cancelled sales of the s-300 to Syria, but, then Putin said he would provide them to Iran

      I had a link here at some point in time????
      Don't ask me when, there must be close to 300 posts on Syria
      I don't even know where to begin

    4. "mercs don't like a fair fight, & even salafi's are reluctant to face sudden death - they're hit & run operators who can face a glorious 'martyrdom', but not anything resembling an even fight."

      That is exactly my point - and the same is true of the US/CIA/NATO Empire, as well. They only seek to engage and destroy weaker opponents and steal their resources.

      If a scenario like Libya were to occur in Syria, but with the added pressure of a dozen or two aircraft shot down per day, their love of "no fly zones" and "humanitarian bombing" would quickly evaporate.

      The same is true and even moreso with significant losses of ground forces - mass media control and spin or not, the US people do not want this, and it would cause a rude awakening for too many people far too quickly - forcing the obvious questions, "Hey, WTF are we doing fighting Syria, anyway???"

      The evil ones can only "manage perception" to a certain extent, and this is largely due to places like this, and the internet as a means for all of us to spread the truth via non-globalist controlled channels.

      I am personally amazed at the number of intelligent people and ideas here, and that is probably the most encouraging sign in this entire mess. It matters.

  12. sorry, was that what she mentioned in the video-"Syria Girl mentions a scenario involving an attack involving Turkey and Israel in the Golan Heights", (i watched the video a couple hours ago) sorry...i'm tired, i'm gonna log off now, give my head a rest, lol. :)

    1. She lays out the scenario at about 4:30

  13. Oh and anonymous 2:00 pm

    Me a warrior!?
    Nah ;)
    Just trying as best I can to sort through the shit and get to the facts

    I know what you mean and thanks :)

  14. Posting this here, eventually will move it into a post, but for now what do you all think? I find some of it most thought provoking

    "We are joined by Stanislav Tarasov, one of Russia’s leading experts on Turkey. Mr. Tarasov, could you please explain to us what's behind Turkey’s recent attack against Syria? Does it mean Turkey will get involved into the Syrian conflict?

    I wouldn’t dramatize that incident. Turkey has been very active in the Syrian conflict, considered its attitude towards Syria, so such incidents can’t be ruled out in the future. But the question is: what aftermath will they have? Take, for instance, this artillery attack. I was relieved to see that Turkey immediately turned to NATO and the United Nations. We can now expect them to pass a slew of condemning resolutions. But that’s more of a limiting factor. Turkey is most likely to stay out of any military conflict, although there are forces that would benefit from triggering a regional conflict. There have been a lot of publications supporting this point, for example in the Israeli media.

    Americans have said they aren’t going to lead the military operation under any circumstances. NATO has distanced itself from the conflict as well. What can pull Turkey into a war against Syria?

    Tarasov: In the case of a NATO involvement, it would have set up an interim government in the occupied zones and proceeded according to the usual scenario.(Libya etc.,) This didn’t work out this time. Why? Because the Syrian Army has proved to be strong. That was to be expected because initially it was preparing to stave off an Israeli strike, let alone an attack by a bunch of thugs called the Free Syrian Army or whatever. So, the army is combat-ready and security services have stayed loyal to the regime and refused to hand in Assad. Moreover, it’s for a reason that the Syrian General Staff had been conducting staff drills called “coup” twice a month just before the conflict broke out. They were gearing up for this situation; they were ready for any turn of events. If Turkey were to launch an operation against Syria now, Iraq’s Kurdistan would strike it in the rear.

  15. Pt2

    Makes mention of internal struggles in Turkey

    For the first time in two decades, the forces known as Kurdish militants have been engaged in proper military operations on the Turkish soil. Since troops were pulled out, gendarmes have failed to win this victory. They are now in midst of a profound political crisis. The conflict between the ruling party and the opposition has exacerbated, with the opposition suing the president, the defense minister, the foreign chief and so forth. In a nutshell, what we are seeing is a sign of a deepening crisis. In this situation, NATO isn’t interested in a war. If Turkey gets into the conflict it won’t be able to pull out of it. In that case, it will be forced to pay its full attention to this war and carry out a full-scale operation, which means Iran and the neighboring countries will join in as well. Russia and China are opposing it all. So, it’s a very complicated geopolitical combination without any exit in sight. That’s why Turkey will be held back by the West and probably by the stance of Russia and neighboring nations.

    Turkey was an active proponent of decisions that would have sanctioned a military intervention in Syria without the UN approval. It was pulling at all levers including the Friends of Syria, different Islamic quartets and conferences and finally sheltered the Syrian opposition. All of that bypassed the UN resolution. Turkey showed it was open for a military involvement as long as the West was by its side. It was backed by NATO at that time. However it’s all getting more interesting now, because Turkey has suddenly begun shifting all the responsibility to UN tools. And a UN tool is basically a Security Council resolution. So, Turkey is virtually hiding behind this resolution to stay out of the conflict, while Erdogan is publicly criticizing Moscow and Beijing for their support of Damascus. So, Turkey says, yes, we are ready to fight, but where’s the resolution? They were acting different before, which means they are really being pulled into the conflict, most probably by Saudi Arabia or Qatar, who must have thrown money behind the operation against Syria. But the point is that Arab armed forces are quite weak and would lose to Syria, while the Turkish troops are fighting-fit. So they are trying to solve the Syrian problem with the financial help from the Persian Gulf by arranging a situation that would involve no NATO members or geopolitical players, while Syria and Turkey will be counting their dead. Russia and China have vetoed the resolution, which only played in the hands of Turkey. So it’s most likely that Turkey will do its best to steer clear of the conflict, although you can’t rule out sporadic clashes.


  16. Walter Wit Man, the balance of power is still massively in the West's favour, & while the advantage is shrinking, Russia needs atleast 5 years as it modernizes its military into suitable shape for any major involvement outside it's immediate environment, with the full-scale modernization plan scheduled to take until 2020, & this is much the same with the economy.
    The Chinese are in much the same boat - better off financially, but completely hemmed in by US power, & it will take them roughly the same amount of time for them to be in any shape for major involvement outside their immediate environment & be able to stand on their own.
    Add to the fact that the Russians & Chinese have had plenty to deal with in their immediate environments, as well as at home, there is only so much they can do.

    Neither is looking for a new cold war, but forces in the West keep looking to try & force them into that position - both are smart enough to not put themselves in the position that your potential adversary wants you to be in.

    However, the current completely out-of-control aggression without any thought of consequences is forcing them to greater involvement than either wants, or is particularly ready for. Both know that if Syria is forced into rapid regime-change by the Western-GCC alliance, Iran is next.
    Russia knows this sets the whole region on fire, with a massive spillover into Central Asia & a strengthening of Salafi forces that would make the spillover from Afghan adventure look small.
    China, which is generally well positioned to win either way, seems to waking up to the fact that this a step too far, & that the NATO/GCC alliance is completely out of control.
    But they are still extremely cautious in dealing with anything outside their immediately environment, & their natural tendency is to look for the middle path.

    There is no mutual defense posture involving Russia & Syria, but there is one involving Syria & Iran. There is also a vast Western military buildup surrounding them along with strong western & GCC political forces which are looking for any excuse to sell an attack on Iran, which would likely destroy much of Iran's infrastructure.
    The Iranian's are justifiably extremely wary, but are likely looking for ways to give as much support as possible without giving the interested Western forces the casus belli they are looking for.

    The Russian's seem to be looking for a way to put into Syria their forces under a UN peacekeeping umbrella, & as Penny about earlier, they have recently got the CSTO Rapid Reaction force bluehatted for peacekeeping missions. But need backing, as they do not have the forces to do it alone against the whole NATO/GCC alliance, or to deal with the consequenses of a long-drawn economic/proxy war against them.
    They seem to looking to the BRICS + Algeria to back them, which would give them the needed mandate, cash backing & support from China, as well as some sign of sanity from Europe, probably their most important trading block, that they can work with.
    Unfortunately, things look like getting much worse before that happens, & there will likely have to be major blowback to European to European interests for it to finally sink in.
    So for now, it's what support they can send to Syrians, hopefully with the Chinese starting to back them tangibly.

    1. The had a mutual defense "posture" in the sense that it was an open question whether Russia would defend Syria like an ally. Traditionally, allies like Syria and the Soviet Union had mutual defense pacts and Syria and Russia have a history of a military alliance. My impression is that Syria lobbied Russia to defend it and indeed sought weapons from it as an ally would (like Israel and the U.S.--when Israel is threatened the U.S. sends weapons.

      Putin crushed all pretense of "posturing" by announcing that Russia would not militarily defend Syria.

  17. Interesting stuff, Penny. Wrote this earlier & posted it at MoA, looking to get my thoughts in order about Erdogan & his position, as well as some of the background:

    PS. Will get some rest after this, as my last post was all over the place. Any way of getting an edit button for posts that you did yourself, Penny?
    Erdogan seems to of created a situation where a constitutional coup in which he essentially becomes an absolute dictator is the only way that he & the AKP will retain power.

    He has engendered an enormous level of alienation with large sections of his own population, completely alienated his immediate neighbors & many of Turkey's major trading partners, & put himself completely in the camp of outside cultural forces that are despised by the majority of the Turkish people - the bizarre blend of Wahhabi influenced extreme Islamism & extreme neoliberalism that has hijacked much of the 'Arab Spring'.

    Much of what he has done over the last few years now stands in sharp relief - the persecution & jailing of independant media voices, the decapitation of the army leadership, the attacks against the judiciary, the aggressive lobbying to change the constitution, & the continued concentration of power to those in his inner circle or directly into his hands.

    The backbone of the AKP, the small & large business classes along with the working class are being hit very hard over the AKP foreign policy, and major trading partners onboard with Turkey's new foreign policy are now reduced to the EU & the Gulf states, with much of the EU only likely to go so far.
    The Alevis, Kurds & many of the border peoples are likely completely unrecoverable for the AKP, & are now moving into a situation where their level of alienation brings into question their relationship as part of the Turkish state as a whole.

    The enormous popular mandate that he had going into his 'final' term was very much based on the rising economy which had given genuinely broad economic improvement to the majority, & the greatly improved sense of security for the ordinary citizen that the policy based from the "zero problems with neighbours" formulation seemed to epitomise.

    This is now firmly in the garbage heap.

    What remains is the gamble is that Erdogan can maintain enough of a popular mandate to consolidate the powers he needs in order to crush any potential challenges or uprisings, while keeping the economy going.

    The gamble seems based on a number of premises:-


    1. Ken regarding edit button

      The only chance to edit is when you preview your comment prior to publishing
      If worse comes to worse, you have to delete and start over
      It happens to me.
      Sometimes I use notepad or something like that to comment first, especially if I am going to go long
      I seem to be able to order my thoughts better that way
      I thought your response was quite coherent

  18. from above:

    For the economy:
    - that enough long term deals have been signed with major trading partners in the 'no problems' era, particularly with Russia & China, that they will accept the new formulation without a major change in relations;
    - that Turkey's position as a stable trade corridor developed in the 'no problems' era is strong enough that the other powers & their attendant businesses will continue to maintain & look to grow their investments into Turkish trade infrastructure, and continue to patronise Turkish businesses in doing so.
    - that enough diplomatic capital has been gained that they can still position themselves as an arbitrator & voice in Middle Eastern & Central Asian to maintain & expand Turkey's interest;
    - that Iran needs them too much for it to effect trade;
    - that enough Gulf & Western capital will be forthcoming that they can paper over cracks, and utilise it to make up for lost business in Syria, tourism & trade losses, etc.
    - that this influx of capital will be productive in the wider economy, & that the Turkish economy will be strong enough that this will not effectively result in overbearing debt, foreign capture of business assets, etc.
    - that unemployment & inflation will not rise dramatically for an extended period of time.

    This gamble seems to completely discount the major reasons for Turkish growth over the last decade - stability, & a relatively transparent investment framework removed from political overtones - which look to be headed for extinction.
    It also completely overlooks the large-scale growth in other trade route infrastructure happening in Iran, Pakistan, & across Central Asia as well as the strong interest in the opening of Egyptian trade routes to Chinese development. If Turkey is no longer a bastion of stability, it's advantages dissappear, with political alliances & long-term interests coming much more into play.

    The security gamble is even more extreme:
    - that the military will be cowed & simply forced by circumstances into enforcing Erdogan's dictates;
    - that the massive influx of Salafi extremists into Turkish staging areas will continue to go across the border, & not become a major security threat to the Turkish people;
    - that their ideology & methods will not spread to local groups;
    - that the open support, funding & training of seperatists & extremists by the Turkish state will not rebound against Turkey.


    The closest to Erdogan's current position in recent history is Saddam Hussein just prior to the invasion of Iran - very successful, rising economy, broad popular mandate, extremely ambitious & looking to capitalize on a chaotic situation in a neighboring country with the help of the exact same foreign powers currently backing Erdogan.

    Hussein opened with a full-scale military invasion funded mostly by outside sources, eventually leading to Iraq, Hussein & his inner circle ultimately being destroyed in the same manner.

    Erdogan has started with the open use of subversion, seperatism & proxy forces, and there is a good chance that this ends in a similar fashion for both Turkey & Erdogan.

    1. Russia and china have sufficient enough arsenals assuming away a land war that modernization while ongoing is rearguard to the progression of the Yuan and economy at this stage. There was a naval exercise some years back which showed china " assymetric" weapons program winning big. It was also out today that us sending F35 and 2 carriers to pacific (nhk). Us needs the bond market more than Russia. A lot. China has its own bad debt problems along with food and water issues but the demos and their Africa hunt is trying to mitigate. Thge Japan island dispute probably falls in the catagory of the border shelling. The yen afterall is a lynchpin of the dollar regime and was the single greatest reflationary vehicle for western assets - that being deflation. Ask a Japan national if their real estate got cheaper? Helped with the energy costs rising whilst supporting dollar and risk bid. The china Russia axis is about manpower consumption and resources (Russia). A similiar argument might be had of the Russia and Germany link via nord stream. What is that saying don't build destroyers in an age of aircraft carriers. Perhaps the china shooting down a satellite and or India annoucing its own Mars mission next year are a subtle response to the xb37? Clinton had it right (and Rubin too) only it is the dollar stupid.

    2. Several days ago fsa announced it was going to move headquarters to Syria after the latest meeting in turkey. The one Saudi skipped. Then the fse lhead" said he was back and forth. The move was seen as giving them legitimate.

    3. Sep 23:

      On Sept. 22 the FSA announced it had moved its command center from Turkey to “liberated areas” inside Syria. A video posted on YouTube appeared to show the leader of the FSA, al-Asaad, confirming the move.

      A prominent member of the SNC said the commanders of the FSA based in the Apaydın camp of southern city of Hatay in Turkey don’t have any power or existence in Syria.
      “The fighters in Syria don’t recognize them as their leaders, there are different groups in Syria and they recognize the leader of their own brigade as their leaders. For instance the rebels in Aleppo listen to the orders of the regional FSA leader, Abdulcabbar Agadi, not the leaders in Turkey,” an SNC member said.

  19. when you do you will have to see no less then my last 5 pages worth of posts..due to length of some..all explosive.. first page barely shows anything go into 2-3-4-5 and prepare yourself ..because videos i got up are absolutly shocking!!!or maybe someone who comments here can go borrow them from there and post them here lol (thats ok too wont name names ;)anyway all jokes aside see these..without going there that way you wont have to go thru 5 different pages,pls see these ..almost noone has seen this info yet..except shoah and uprooted whos already posted some of it..look..
    Leaked video shows who was really behind recent attack on Turkey(3 videos actually)

    videos and pics of mega protests all over turkey to protest erdogans war

    ali salehi minister of foreign affairs for iran geos into CFR

    international iran tribunal exposed as zionist imperial tool by one atendee and dissident

    fake pro fsa demo in turkey video

    video fsa kill a farmer burn his olive groves (3 videos) fsa cheering their attacks in allepo proud of it

    my new video on syria good link(not broken)the syria conspiracy-the zionists bloodthirst
    and you already know much much mre some links have mor ethen 1 video..anotehr is suicide fsa and much much more..again sis this hasnt been shown anywhere really..

  20. Just one more thing: quick search of google and the stories about Iran currency stop 3 days ago. The original stories came from Al arabiya then picked up by bloomber and eventually a Cato hack writes a hyperinflation story. Point is ft blogs zippo until the arabiya stories. Story fropm haaretz end sep on how the sanctions biting more than obvious. Then the FX stories.

    1. For what it's worth, this prominent economic blogger was "pinged" (a la Angry Arab):

      Monthly 70% Inflation Rate

      Steve Hanke, Professor of Applied Economics at Johns Hopkins University, has also been following the Iranian currency crisis. He pinged me with these thoughts yesterday.

      Hello Mish

      For months, I have been following the collapse of the Iranian rial, tracking black-market exchange-rate data from foreign-exchange bazaars in Tehran. Using the most recent data, I now estimate that Iran is experiencing a monthly inflation rate of nearly 70%, indicating that hyperinflation has struck in Iran.


      Now I'm not inclined to accept this on faith . . . but it seems like the lull in stories about Iran's currency is over. The blog post also links to a recent Guardian story about alleged protests over the situation in Iran.

    2. I was alluding to the KONY "viral" 9as measured by youtube "clicks" video and then the subsequent US deployment

      Currency is a time tested regime changer

      And Iran says will defeat manipulators

      It so happens that the same media outlet al arabiya is running the story about Israel Foreign Min expecting a Persian Spring.\10\05\story_5-10-2012_pg14_2

      This has every appearance of a broad based offensive. Moreover, Al Arabiya hits the trifecta with a story about Syria rebels starting executing those Iranian hostages.

      EU talking about a full Iran gas embargo.

    3. israeli spring...

    4. and as for the russia angle:
      Russia backs Pakistan’s stance on drone strikes (dawn)
      and the Litvenenko case is being reopened in the UK

      Once again, 4 spy cases linked to russia in past year

    5. Interesting anonymous.

      Yep anonymous, full on soft power (if that's the right description) assault. The balls on Israel to predict a Persian Spring and the sanctions and probable currency manipulation. Wonder how much is real and how much is psy ops.

      Here's the only video I've seen of the demonstrations and I can't tell who they are and what they are protesting: I see some green shirts so I guess some may be critical of the government.

      I've seen other reports, featured in the West, that 150 'merchants' were arrested, riot police called out, tear gas was fired, and there were pictures of a small fire surrounded by a lot of police, as seen here: ; and,7340,L-4288308,00.html ; here ; and here:,7340,L-4288308,00.html ; here's a bonus pic that is probably fake, and another fake?

      Didn't know that Continental currency was pure fiat currency! Or the history of Germany counterfeiting British notes.

      Interesting also to 'note' the unsubstantiated claim the Germans were going to liquidate the camp workers who forged the notes but some 'lucky' happenstance frees them. Instead of just putting the prisoners in a pen and shooting them or letting them starve to death, as the American did to German POWs, the Germans bungled the job by devising some convoluted plan.

    6. And this is what CNN shows.

      Looks much different from the above linked video of the demonstrations and very suspicious to me. I bet it's shopped.

    7. Sorry for repeating two of the above links about the Tehran demonstration. I bungled the links and really need to preview before I hit enter . . . .

      The first liveleaks link is the most important video to watch and then the CNN version of the demonstrations directly above. I don't think the demonstrations are being represented fairly in the West and I'm suspicious of the claimed 'rioting' and arrests that is the main story we see. Those other links show how the 'rioting' and 'arrest' and 'tear gas' are depicted (in a sketchy way).

      I see some are attributing news of the arrests to a website with ties to state security, or some such nonsense like that. Why not a statement from Tehran's police chief, etc.? Many of the pictures look fake or blown out of proportion. Maybe one guy burned something and some police showed up. Maybe there was a bigger response. Who knows. I don't trust our media.

      But CNN's video looks fake to me.

    8. Ok. My bad. The CNN video is purportedly from a 2009 demonstration . . . the way it appeared on liveleak I thought it was from the same demonstration.

  21. Not a bad roundup of the US-China naval situation

  22. Always a questionable source, but they are admitting here what the actual goal is - you don't even have to read between the lines or guess about it at all:

    "Turkey’s government and military decided to make do with carving out a buffer strip 10 kilometers deep into Syria by continuous artillery barrages."

    This is what they are really doing here - creating this "buffer zone", to bring thousands more al-CIAda terrorists into Aleppo (because they have been defeated by the REAL Syrian Army) and on into the rest of Syria.

    "By the saturation bombardment of the 10-kilometer strip inside Syria, Turkey plans to drive the Syrian military presence out and enable the two rebel brigades to move in and start establishing a 50-kilometer long protected corridor from Aleppo up to the Killis region of southern Turkey."

    They are admitting it, plain and simple. They are paving the way for FOREIGN terrorists (not indigineous Syrian people who are "rebels") to flood into Syria. Period. Rebels who are inside Syria don't need to be allowed IN, do they? I mean, seriously, how much more obvious could this possibly be??

    If I didn't already know what the deal actually is, I'd be shocked and wondering "Where the hell is the UN when hostile nations are violating the borders and invading a sovereign nation that has not attacked any other nation???"

    Of course, they're using this false flag to take care of that "Syria has not attacked any other nation" part, and we know too well that the idea of "sovereignty" is only honored by the UN globalists when it is convenient - and it simply does not apply when they want to attack a sovereign nation, such as Syria.

    The UN is anything but neutral or "fair", and everyone knows this and sees it for the corrupt tool of the globalist elite that it truly is. Never trust the UN, any of its agents and especially not it's "NGO" organizations that come in to "help people" in troubled areas - you know, places where the UN caused the trouble to begin with.

  23. Hi Penny, that one sided single-sourced "apology" stood out a mile as a lie. Not much discussion here on it, but mud sticks. It did the trick.

    1. Yeah, ridiculous.

      In a previous version of this New York Times article it was ~13 paragraphs down before they got to who was responsible for the mortar attack and what evidence they had. And they wrote that the Syrian government "seemed" to admit the attack. They later noted Syria request a further investigation, contradicting the previous reporting, but they effect of the whole story was to cast blame on Syria. It was a real hatchet job.

      The story only mentioned the attack in Aleppo at the very end.

      I see the story has changed now and no longer includes the part that Syria "seemed" to admit shelling.

    2. This article from MSNBC about the shelling, by New York Times reporters Anne Barnard and Sebnem Arsu, includes this one critical sentence that was left out of the New York Times version:

      It was unknown whether the mortar fire came from Syrian government forces or rebels fighting to topple the government of President Bashar al-Assad. The Turkish response seemed to assume that the Syrian government was responsible.

      Via Reddit/r/conspiracy/

    3. Ugh, make that CNBC. Whatever. One of our corporate overlords.

    4. Hey felix

      I did mention the apology in the post and the comments, I thought it pretty important, the non apology that is
      see my latest there is even more and glad to see you around

  24. Turkey, Syria, and Iraq have been negotiating water usage on the Euphrates and Tigris for years now. The linked article explains:

    "Turkey has been building a mega-development project consisting of 22 dams and 19 hydroelectric power plants on the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. The ultimate objective of the South-Eastern Anatolian Project (GAP) is to irrigate about 1.7m ha and produce 27bn kWh annually, the equivalent of 19 percent of the country’s total irrigable area and 22 percent of its total hydroelectric potential. . . .

    Although Turkey considers this project to be a ‘domestic’ enterprise, the impact on downstream countries will ultimately be significant.

    Last year, Turkey reportedly "ruled out cutting water flows to Syria from Turkey as part of sanctions on the Syrian regime over its brutal military crackdown on protesters and army defectors, underlining that all measures against the Syrian regime must not harm the Syrian people."

    Also in water news, a major water pipeline into Aleppo was attacked last month in an act of sabotage. Western media promoted the idea it was attacked by a Syrian government warplane, but why Syria would bomb their own water supply is a mystery to me.

  25. Syrian Perspective - Morris interviews Ziad, confirms false-flag
    Syria Does Not Want a War With Turkey - Ziad Fadel

  26. syria rebels admit responsibility for false flag attack on turkeys leaked video o' false flag 2 actualy 3rd!!!

    1. Must see fsa. Fake live burial video from jordan!!!

    2. Good video showing the foreign fighters in possession of mortars, etc. Can't view the German television report but there does seem to be enough conflicting evidence to state that Turkey and the West are clearly leaping to conclusions by assigning blame to the Syrian government.

      Still amazes me how complicit the entire MSM is. The New York Times first expressed doubt about who did the attacks then went with the full-on war propaganda when we know there is contradictory evidence.

  27. Hey all

    I will be back later to respond and I do have some stuff bookmarked for a follow up
    See ya soon :)

  28. ambiguities of Angry arab...who does he say is killing the syrian people...see if you can work it out!

    Saturday, December 10, 2011
    Syrian military
    I don't like Michel Kilu, and never liked him. I have felt that he tries to play both sides and that he softens his stance towards the regime. But here has a good critique of the program of the Syrian National Council. Astonishingly, the Syrian National Council wants to preserve the Syrian military and work closely with it in post-Asad Syria although it is the one that is killing the Syrian people.

    now does angry claim the syrian military or the SNC is killing syrians? if the latter he is well informed..if the former....

  29. pitbull erDOGan ordered slapped down:

    1. Brian, angryarab, that one will be good for WWM, me I don't read there, just can't find the time

      ty for the links

      I don't think erdogan has been slapped down, this is a baby step imo

    2. I couldn't disagree more with the positive spin.

      Turkey just assaulted Syrian positions--multiple times. It was reckless and criminal of Turkey to attack Syria.

      And now Turkey is claiming the right to enter Syria's territory with its military? Really?

      If Assad backs down and allows Turkey's military to enter Syrian territory without firing a shot he has certainly lost.

      But I don't know if I trust reports about what orders the pilots are getting in Syria. Very easily could be propaganda.

      This is what I imagine aggressive Syrian strategists are advising:

      Syria should finally retaliate against one of the wrongdoers. Turkey makes the easiest target and its offenses are particularly wrong.

      Syria should attack Turkey with all its has and try to occupy it. Go on the total offensive. Send all available planes on sortie after sortie into Turkey until they are all gone (they're going to be gone anyway once the war starts, right?). Send all available tanks and attack troops into Turkey. Knock out all the dams on the Tigris and Euphrates. Destabilize the border with Greece. Maybe Syria would have the advantage because of the recent fighting and maybe Turkey is really not prepared for a full scale invasion.

      This would bring the war to the aggressors. NATO would be forced to retaliate largely within Turkey. Turkey may bear more of the damage than Syria.

      They could also [imaging the aggressive Syrian adviser here], move a smaller group of forces into Lebanon and hunker down for the final war and then the following resistance.

      Iran would probably be brought in along with Israel.

      I would imagine it would then be full scale war pretty quickly and Syria and Iran would have to blow their wads and then go into resistance fighting and sabotage, etc.

  30. and thanks for all the links you anonymous dynamo you!! :)