Saturday, February 22, 2014

Syria and Ukraine: Kindred Nations?

Ukraine tied up with Syria- Russia crucial to them both

From Robert Fisk @ the Independent.
Fisk presents a narrative of dependance on Putin's Russia- and goes through the similarities between Ukraine and Syria that extend beyond Putin
Assad “will instead be dwelling upon the remarkable similarities between Yanukovych’s besieged government and his own Syrian regime, which is still battling an armed struggle against insurgents.

Assad & Yanukovych 
Similarities indeed, and there are so many: Blood in the Streets: Is the west repeating the Syrian model in Ukraine
Fisk- The similarities are "close enough to persuade the Syrian President and his Talleyrand – the Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem – to study the degree of support Putin gives to his ally in Kiev"
Without Russian and Iranian support, Assad could scarcely have survived the past three years of war in Syria. Nor could Yanukovych, without Moscow’s “brotherly” friendship, have withstood opposition forces – and the EU’s flirtation with Ukraine – as long as he has. The Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been using almost the same words of irritation and anger towards the US over Ukraine as he did towards America when it was threatening to bomb Syria. If Ukraine constitutes Russia’s eastern defensive wall against Europe, Syria – fighting against Islamist rebels every bit as ruthless as Putin has faced in Chechnya – is part of Moscow’s southern flank
There are other, more intriguing comparisons. The initial Syrian opposition to Assad – following revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt – was peaceful, although armed men did occasionally appear even in the early days of the revolt.
Fisk is typically contradictory- if armed men appeared, which they did, shooting at police and others then opposition was not peaceful, ever.
Just as Assad’s first opponents were idolised by the West – and its media – as freedom fighters, so were the Ukrainian opposition regarded as anti-regime rather than anti-constitutional by the same powers and their newspapers. Once Syria’s unrest became weaponised on both sides, the West and its Arab allies sent military equipment to Assad’s enemies. There is no evidence that the West has done the same for Yanukovych’s opponents, some of whom are now also armed.
Again is Fisk witting or unwitting, I don’t know? I can’t see him being unwitting.
He would or should be aware of all the funding poured into Ukraine from NATO, then based on history  recent and otherwise, safely conclude that the west has indeed armed the fascist opposition.

Canada funding Ukrainian armed opposition
Or
Maidan activists trained by NATO in 2006
Or
Nuland and 5 billion
Or

Nuland planning the new Ukraine government- F the EU
I am comfortable with concluding the West has armed the fascists

Fisk then mentions a Syria/Ukraine trade pact:

There have, of course, long been contacts between Syria and the Ukraine. Just before the revolution in Syria, Assad visited Kiev, signed a free trade agreement and heard Yanukovych praise his country as Ukraine’s “gateway to the Middle East”. There are closer ties: the large number of Syrian students who have been attending Ukrainian universities and the larger number of Ukrainian citizens born to Syrian and Soviet parents before the collapse of Communism in eastern Europe. The older Syrian generals also know Kiev well from their early training in Soviet military schools.

Assad visited Kiev and signed a trade agreement?!  I had no idea...
I was, however, aware of the 4 seas strategy that Assad was enacting, that would have set up Syria quite nicely, really- June 2011 Assad's "Four Seas Strategy" Damascus converges with China
 But,Ukraine’s gateway to the middle east– interesting. I was compelled to search
2010- right before the destabilization of Syria began in earnest
Just as Fisk reported.
Interesting...
Memorandum of Understanding between the Ministry of Agrarian Policy of Ukraine and the Ministry of Agriculture and Agrarian Reform of the Syrian Arab Republic on protection of plant varieties
 The protection of plant varieties. What would this have included or excluded GMO's?

Considering? Ukraine: Cargill acquires stake in UkrLand Farming/food control = people control

Would the Syria/Ukraine trade agreement have been problematic for Cargill?

Fisk continues.......
The real question for Syria is this: will Putin be able to support Yanukovych if US and EU pressure continues to build? Is the survival of Yanukovych worth a new Cold War? If it is, Assad is safe: the Russians will not abandon Syria since this would demonstrate how easily they might turn their backs on “Russian” Ukraine. But what if the US offered Putin carte blanche in the Ukraine in return for his abandonment of the Assad regime? Obama could once more make his fraudulent claim that it was American military threats – rather than Russian mediation – that forced Assad to hand over his chemical weapons to the UN. And insist that Assad must bow to the transitional government which the Americans and British and other EU nations have been trying to foist upon his regime at Geneva.”
I actually believe the situation in Ukraine has gone beyond the US offering any sort of  'carte blanche' to anyone. So, I don't see this scenario Fisk advances as plausible.

Continuing...
Assad, however, is a survivor. His Baath party was schooled in self-preservation by Putin’s predecessors. Assad may understand Yanukovych; yet he knows Putin better. Not for nothing do the Egyptians admiringly call the Russian leader “the fox”. That’s why Putin has sent his personal mediator to Kiev. Washing its hands of Damascus would do incalculable harm to Moscow’s standing in the “new” Middle East. ( I agree) The Syrians realise Russia is big enough to fight on two fronts. (frightening to contemplate) So Putin will probably just have to go on struggling for his allies – before Ukraine turns as bloody as Syria

The Ukraine turning as bloody as Syria- Entirely possible
We could be looking at certain areas, already operating independently, making it official

The Crimea- I did a post on this area so many years ago  Crimea the pain in the Ukraine's backside
" After several years of negotiations, Crimea became an "Autonomous Republic" within the nation of Ukraine. Crimea has its own constitution, government and legislature and certain other rights that keep it from being just another region (oblast) of Ukraine"
 Ukraine's autonomous Crimea region leans towards Moscow
 This autonomous republic is traditionally close to Russia, and as demonstrations continue to wrack Kiev and other regions more than two months after anti-government protests erupted, local lawmakers have asked Moscow for protection against what they qualify as "extremists."

Extemists? That's not accurate enough in my book. What these protestors are truly is well trained and armed fascist fighters- backed by NATO nations
Check this image out from the Yahoo article linked above and tell me what you see?

Anti-government protestors of the "14 Hundred Self-Defense" group take part in a protest rally in front of the Prosecutor General building in Kiev on February 14, 2014
Anti-government protestors of the "14 Hundred Self-Defense" group take part in a protest rally in front of the Prosecutor General building in Kiev on February 14, 2014

 Protestors? Or an organized urban band of fighters? And Fisk doesn't know that the US and company supplied these obviously well organized, geared up, fully armed  fighters.

I know this is a lengthy post, but, come on your attention span can take it ;)

 The White House protests way, way, way too much...

White House stresses Ukraine conflict is not “proxy” war

 The current situation, White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters, “is profoundly different from the Cold War era in that what we’ve seen in recent weeks and months is the express desire of Ukrainian people for a future that they decide on their own -- for themselves, for their nation.”

Nonsense

 During the Cold War, there were “conflicts that were simply proxy conflicts,” he said. By contrast, “The Ukrainian people are not substitutes for anyone in this conflict. They are expressing their desires, not U.S. desires or European desires. 

Double Nonsense.
 If you have to tell people this is not a proxy war it can only be because it is so obvious that it is a proxy war.

25 comments:

  1. I believe Putin wins this round, the country will split apart with non crazies going to Russia and Amerikas/Euro thugs come into the fold to be fleeced. Amerika will install a few missiles batteries around telling their new proxy it will make them safer but what they don't know is the bill comes later. In just few years from now they'll look like Greece and Amerika/Euro won't be helping with the new increased rates for natural gas. Hell Amerika won't help it's own citizens natural gas bills.

    It is close to what happening in Syria but the Syrians citizens have woken up, they are Syrians first above all else just like the Iranians.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A lot of folks feel that the Russians would be very happy with splitting the country. You might like this:

      http://aramaxima.wordpress.com/2014/02/20/what-russia-wants-geopolitics-in-ukraine/

      The West would be left with a dirt poor area, full of Nazis, and Russia would win on many fronts. A large part of the country voted over 65% for Yanukovich, and one doubts they see this coup in a favorable light.

      Paul

      Delete
    2. For all intents and purposes I think the Ukraine has long been divided
      Crimea is already fully autonomous

      The sad thing in all this Paul was that the Ukraine did not need the EU
      It was the EU that needed the Ukraine... and did what it did to ensure that monstrosity and it's bank lives on to plunder a bit longer

      Delete
    3. jo6pac

      your scenario is vastly more appealing then a global war
      and yet somehow.... I think the US is exactly after a global war
      then all the problems within the economy that extended out to the globe because of this nonsensical 'globalization' will be forgotten
      swept under the rug

      Delete
  2. Ukraine:
    More information is coming in about the "unanimous" vote of the Ukrainian parliament for the new fascist government in Ukraine. The whole delegation of the deputies from the Communist Party of Ukraine were detained and others voted using their cards. many of the deputies were beaten up. The party headquarters were plundered and destroyed. It appears that a number of the deputies from the hitherto ruling Party of the Regions were detained as well by the opposition's paramilitaries.
    ................govts should refuse to recognise any neonazi govt arrived at by COUP...here is a real test of character for govts media and HR groups

    ReplyDelete
  3. Robert Fisk:"
    'Assad “will instead be dwelling upon the remarkable similarities between Yanukovych’s besieged government and his own Syrian regime, which is still battling an armed struggle against insurgents.'

    someone tell Fisk Syria has a 'GOVERNMENT' not a 'regime'

    ReplyDelete
  4. germanys in as pickle: neonazis laws and a potential neonazi govt in ukraine
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4339983.stm

    ReplyDelete
  5. Mark Sleboda
    37 minutes ago · Edited
    Today in the putschist Rada, deputies from the Svoboda Party submitted a draft decree on the prohibition of all Russian-language films, TV programs, and broadcasts. Decree #4200
    ----------------
    Mark Sleboda
    Follow · 6 hours ago

    To all who try to pretend that the decisions of this new coup's majority in the Rada are in any way legitimate or legal. This is an elected deputy of the Rada being dragged through a mob gauntlet to "vote...See More
    To all who try to pretend that the decisions of this new coup's majority in the Rada are in any way legitimate or legal. This is an elected deputy of the Rada being dragged through a mob gauntlet to "vote" today in Kiev.

    - picture from the Guardian
    "Anti-government protesters attack a deputy of the Party of Regions Vitaly Grushevsky outside the Ukrainian Parliament building in Kiev. Photograph: VASILY FEDOSENKO/REUTERS"

    ReplyDelete
  6. http://rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-militants-210/

    ReplyDelete
  7. @They protest to much....

    They are lying and they cannot do otherwise. They always did:
    "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
    WizOz

    ReplyDelete
  8. All the "revolutions" since the fall of Ceausescu displayed some common features, like the gilded taps of the bathrooms of the "dictators", symbol of their corruption, and a mandatory reference to Marie-Antoinette ("let them eat cake"). I was waiting since the beginning of the Maidan the moment when the golden taps would show up. It took a long time, but eventually it happened. There were not gilded taps, but something gilded did show up nevertheless. The quotation from Marie-Antoinette was used creatively, adapted to the local conditions (to show that it was spontaneous). Here you are.

    "Ukrainian president Yanukovich lived in lavish estate — with private zoo, exotic gardens and tall ships — while country suffered"
    Ukrainian president Viktor F. Yanukovich surrounded himself like a king with menagerie of peacocks, elaborate baths, manicured gardens, a vast greenhouse packed with exotic flowers — and a garage packed with Rolls Royces and other exotic cars.

    Let them eat borscht.

    With a private menagerie full of preening peacocks and opulent ostriches, a car collection full-to-brimming with Rolls Royces, the private residence of embattled Ukrainian president Viktor F. Yanukovich mirrors that of French imperialist Marie Antoinette.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/yanukovych-lived-lavish-presidential-palace-ukraine-suffered-article-1.1698428#ixzz2u6yDyYPT

    Opposition leaders have stormed Yanukovich's residence, opening the lavish Swiss Chalet-style property to the public. Photos from the Mezhyhirya village estate reveal an existence out of touch from the rest of Kiev, from a lavish stone soaking tub to sprawling manicured gardens.
    ......................................................................................................................................
    But amid reports of opulance, at least one, a photo of a golden-tiled commode with lions adorned on each arm rest — claiming to be from the estate — does appear to be a hoax.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/yanukovych-lived-lavish-presidential-palace-ukraine-suffered-article-1.1698428#ixzz2u6sS7dAN

    WizOz

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't know why the psycho elites media bother with this nonsense
      does anyone buy into it?
      They must, but, I don't know why?

      All the sycophants live far above the masses
      Even here in Canada
      and they all exploit the public purse and other purses
      Canadians are poorer then ever
      I don't see the political class hurting one bit
      big, big expense accounts, lavish pensions
      homes, payed for by taxpayers and everything else
      shakes head

      Delete
  9. Mark Sleboda shared a link via Правда о событиях в Украине.
    4 hours ago
    Kharkov repels first probing Right Sector assaults
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZugB_hV15g

    ReplyDelete
  10. Crowds gather in Sevastopol to demand reunification with Russia
    Main square of Sevastopol, home of Russian Black Sea fleet: protest demanding reunification with Russia #ukraine
    https://twitter.com/shustry/status/437224480495370240/photo/1

    ReplyDelete
  11. Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 11h
    "Fascists out!" Residents of Kerch, #Crimea outraged at #Maidan. http://goo.gl/eRKghS (video Feb 22) #ukraineprotests RT @IvorCrotty

    Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 20m
    Rioters crucify 3 golden eagles in #Ukraine (golden eagle="Berkut" in Ukrainian—riot police name) #Ukraineprotests pic.twitter.com/ErETFHue4N

    try Nina for info on Ukraine

    ReplyDelete
  12. Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina Feb 21
    #PussyRiot trolled at Vnukovo airport w/ GIANT CHICKENS in ref. to the infamous "performance." http://goo.gl/nzV80w pic.twitter.com/kxf69umey8

    ReplyDelete
  13. Circuses of sadism: #Maidan rioters in #Ukraine remove the eyes of a (living!) police officer on stage. Graphic video http://goo.gl/4sFJ1G

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. no, omg, the horror to do that to someone
      it makes me feel queasy
      shows how depraved these individuals really are
      "I am Ukraine" must be pleased
      and all the dolts who passed that propaganda around

      Delete
  14. Be back later, I just saw this and wanted to give you a laugh Penny

    pussy riot got met at the airport by a group of civic minded folks dressed as chickens and holding chickens singing
    Pussy taught us to love the motherland
    Click here

    You do know when she had Vnukovo they staged a show at a Grocery where they shoplifted stuff and then she... put a frozen chicken up her .. well, you get the drift.

    sluts, just like femen
    karin (who was a pretty loose woman in her youth, but not THAT loose)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi karin
      yes, I saw the video of the rioting pussy entombing the bird carcass in her crypt
      thought it pretty disgusting

      glad you left that link, brian left a link yesterday but I couldn't get it to work
      ty karin

      Delete
  15. Penny mi vida, what about Venezuela. We have a full on color revolution going on. Maduro is fighting the battle of his life here. Radonkey is one day saying no more protests and then the next he is well why the hell not? Lets protest a little more. He's such a slimey cabron. He'll never be el presidente.
    Fernando

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Fernando
      sigh... Venezuela
      I had noticed the news out of that nation
      but lacked the time to delve into it
      so many destabilizations and so little time
      Hoping everyone realizes this is a destabe and not anything legitimate
      I thought about Chavez when this new first started breaking..
      He was one of a kind
      Fernando, I will see what I can do because you are right Venezuela should not be forgotten

      Delete
  16. 'Why are you almost never reading the truth about Euromaidan?

    It’s quite simple, because much of the media chose the sides of the protesters early on, and now, they would simply lose too much face to admit that even ‘if’ Euromaidan was once an idealistic struggle for a better Ukraine, it’s long been an extreme far-right attempt to overthrow Ukraine '
    etc
    http://grahamwphillips.com/2014/01/22/terrorist-dead-in-kiev/

    good blog

    ReplyDelete

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