Monday, December 7, 2015

The Battle In The Air Over Syria

From james@wpc

You really need to read the entire piece- I am posting excerpts

Excerpt 1:
 It has been a week since I predicted that the Russian and Syrian governments would formally declare a 'No-Fly Zone' over all of Syrian territory and thus making it crystal clear that any flight that does not have the permission of the Syrian government will be declared an act of war against the Syrian people. It didn't happen. At least not in the form I predicted (and hoped for). True, al-Assad has said in interviews that over flights without consent of the Syrian government are a breach of Syria's sovereignty.

 We have also had a few days ago a spokesman from the military co-ordination centre in Damascus that any NATO flights that are not co-ordinated with the Syrian/Russian coalition will be considered as a potential threat and will be countered one way or another.

Re: Afghanistan 

 The Afghanistan war has been going on for 13 years. Does anyone seriously think that the combined forces of NATO can't defeat a militia armed with AK47's and little else (apart from Viagra and Captagon) and no air force? You judge people not on what they say but from the results of what they do. What have they done? They have kept a war going for 13 years that could have been won in a fraction of that time. If someone keeps repeating the same behaviour, then it is clear they want the same results. So we can confidently say that the bankers that control the US want never ending war, never ending profits and ever expanding destruction. This is the ultimate nihilism.

Iraq, Israeli involvement and never ending chaos 

The US bombs Syrian Arab Army
So, inevitably and entirely predictably, we now have a report of the US bombing and killing SAA forces that are closing in on the ISIS stronghold of Deir Ezzor. Also, predictably, the Turkish army has moved into Syrian territory north of Aleppo allegedly to protect its fellow Turkmen but really to protect the ISIS supply line. If the Russians bomb the Turkish army as NATO is tempting them to, then NATO will have its excuse to fight against Russia or at least have NATO countries cut off trade and diplomatic relations with Russia which will suit the international bankers just fine. 
Hammer meet nail! I do believe, fervently, that NATO is trying to get Turkey and Russia fighting. My comment to James will be included at the end of this post- Read the post by james at Winter Patriot Community in full, please.
 
Re: Kurds and ISIS 
Flying cover for ISIS is going to become more and more untenable politically so we are going to witness yet another 'brand name change' or 're-branding'. Penny from Penny For Your Thoughts identified this process years ago and in the last year or so has written many posts detailing how various Kurdish forces have committed genocides of their own in Syria (and Iraq) and have expanded their territory under the guise of fighting ISIS. But both the Kurds and ISIS are funded ultimately by the same people and while they might squabble over some booty, largely they have to co-operate otherwise their funding and armaments will dry up. ISIS would not be able to export stolen Syrian oil if not for the co-operation of the Kurds.
The evidence is that ISIS take over an area and hand it over to the Kurds under the guise of losing to the Kurds in battle. This frees up ISIS troops to move onto other areas and not have their forces tied up securing an already conquered territory. The terrorists are a mobile force and have already moved halfway round the world from Afghanistan to Bosnia to Iraq to Libya to Syria and back to Iraq again. And the US would like to move them on to the southern and northern Caucasus in the near future. ISIS are paid mercenaries. But the Kurds are from Syria, Iraq and Turkey and are motivated to co-operate with the US/ISIS to gain territory and its resources.
All this is leading up to say that (in the press, at least) ISIS will fade and the Kurds will rise allowing the US to claim effectiveness at 'defeating' ISIS and giving them the plausible (to the ignorant) excuse of remaining in the Kurdish areas to protect the noble Kurds and allow the fighting and destruction to continue.
This plan will also give the US a place at the table (and therefore influence) at the eventual peace talks involving Syria. The US will push for the break-up (Balkanisation) of Syria with many statelets which will pose no threat to continuing destabilisation from israel and also set the scene for ongoing wars and terrorism between these new states. A newly created Kurdistan in Syria would also provide a perfect place to station American troops and air force. (Indeed, the the US is already establishing an air base in eastern Syria near the Turkish border with the co-operation of the local Kurdish authorities and is reportedly flying drones out of it already.)
 As stated, read the rest at the opening link!

James has linked back to my post from yesterday:

My response to james:

"Just wanted you to know brian outed himself with one comment that just gave him away
Bascially it doesn't matter who is buying the oil, only who is transporting the oil- well since the buyer bears all the costs and profits of transportation it certainly does make a huge difference. The fact that Israel buys most of the smuggled oil tells us that they are subsidizing terror through their purchase and obviously that terror suits their agenda just fine- which is why they are happy to purchase the oil!
I told brian he left his last disinfo comment at my blog- I've had it with this garbage!
Also my linkie person left something interesting
It seems Turkey was willing to barter with Russia for food etc to avoid using the dollar..
http://sputniknews.com/business/20151028/1029227369/barter-russia-dollar...
From October, well before the plane was shotdown
Iran, Turkey, India, and China have suggested using the barter system in the food industry with Russia to avoid transactions in dollars, Russian agricultural watchdog aide Alexei Alekseyenko said Wednesday.
"SHARM EL-SHEIKH (Sputnik) – Alekseyenko said that Iran had offered the idea of exchanging Russian grain for milk products, fish, and meat, and Turkey had also suggested meat, milk products, fish, and incubated eggs."
Turkey is the only NATO occupied nation that was willing to participate in this trade- That tells me something!
"It comes as Russia is considering conducting transactions in national currencies with India, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iran and Egypt in order to boost mutual trade and reduce dependence on the dollar"
I really hold the view that the US/NATO is working hard to stir the pot between Turkey/Russia (let's you and him fight)
US/NATO could then step in in a chivalrous fashion- I'm still of the opinion Erdogan was out of the loop on the shoot down.
James, everything you say about the Kurds/ISIS seems correct to me
"All this is leading up to say that (in the press, at least) ISIS will fade and the Kurds will rise allowing the US to claim effectiveness at 'defeating' ISIS and giving them the plausible (to the ignorant) excuse of remaining in the Kurdish areas to protect the noble Kurds and allow the fighting and destruction to continue. This plan will also give the US a place at the table (and therefore influence) at the eventual peace talks involving Syria. The US will push for the break-up (Balkanisation) of Syria with many statelets which will pose no threat to continuing destabilisation from israel and also set the scene for ongoing wars and terrorism between these new states. A newly created Kurdistan in Syria would also provide a perfect place to station American troops and air force"
I cannot disagree with that at all- In fact this seems to me to be the plan- as much as I can figure it out- At least it's been heading in that direction- Except- it looks to me that ISIS will move into Turkey- I've said that on the blog- because ISIS has said as much
the destabilization always moves along
from libya to Syria & Iraq- two fronts into Turkey, then onto Iran"

From earlier today: 

PKK Burns 16th Century Fatih Pasa Mosque in Diyarbakir.

Destroyed by NATO's kurdish militias

 

 

20 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  3. 'US/NATO could then step in in a chivalrous fashion- I'm still of the opinion Erdogan was out of the loop on the shoot down'

    how does that even figure?v if some plane get shot down by the russiasn in say Ukraine will Putin be silent, or say it wasnt me and workto provide evidence to that effect.

    So WHO gave the order is an important question Erdogan is ignoring. What loop isnt Erdogan a part of? why keep open a US base when Ecuador managed to close theirs?
    where did the plane come from? etc


    lets see some querying/investigation of these important issuse

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    1. I deleted your other nonsensical off topic pointless comments- at least this one is one topic!

      and brian, much of this has already been covered ad nauseam here, try reading instead of posting unrelated comments

      I will delete rubbish and logical fallacies and any ad hominem comments- period
      you've been warned brian- stay on the subject at hand-

      Delete
  4. 'It has been a week since I predicted that the Russian and Syrian governments would formally declare a 'No-Fly Zone' over all of Syrian territory'

    re no fly zone.so far its only DEFACTO (not formal)
    'Russia had declared a de facto 'no-fly zone'


    as no fly zone entails the chance of setting off WW3, so NOT formal as yet

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  5. Penny, The Turks I spoke to when I was in Turkey last September/October were totally fed up with Erdogan. That was BEFORE he kiboshed their tourism bonanza with Russia. I believe Russia will settle for "regime change" in Turkey (via internal Turkey process) and after Erdogan is gone it will be back to business as usual between Turkey and Russia.

    Putin is holding his fire re starting WWIII because he knows the USrael is financially on the ropes. If he just waits long enough they will hang themselves.

    gc

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    1. The clock is against the US finacially, for sure, Greencrow.
      I'm sure Russia would love to see Turkey kicked out of NATO and it would suit everyone except the US. But it is unlikely for the same reason.

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    2. GC: " I believe Russia will settle for "regime change" in Turkey (via internal Turkey process) and after Erdogan is gone it will be back to business as usual between Turkey and Russia"

      Regime change (and destabilization) which are both coming will mean anything but business as usual for Russia and Turkey (as we know it today)

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    3. If I may add regime change and destabilization in Turkey will work against Russia and it's territorial integrity in the long run

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  6. Hi Pen,
    thanks for putting my post up. The Kurdish leadership is just too corrupt to build anything of value for the average Kurd. Pus, they will inevitable be betrayed by israel and the US.

    The only hope for the Kurds in Syria is to throw their lot in with the Syrian government and Russia and play straight but I seriously doubt they can do that and I doubt the Russians or Syrians can trust them now anyway.

    So the Kurds are now on a roller coaster called the Orwellian Democratic Forces of Syria but they will have no control over it in spite of what the US has promised them.

    Erdogan is doing his best to keep ISIS in Syria because he seriously doesn't want them in Turkey. Assad said a couple of weeks ago that you can't use terrorists and think you can just turn them off when you want. I'm sure he was thinking about Erdogan when he said that.

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    1. "The only hope for the Kurds in Syria is to throw their lot in with the Syrian government and Russia and play straight but I seriously doubt they can do that and I doubt the Russians or Syrians can trust them now anyway"

      Syria was according to all my reading not so bad for the Kurds- they have burned that bridge, IMO

      It's doubtful they would ever be trusted by the government again

      Yes, the Kurds made a fine mess for themselves, but, it's not really the fault of the masses, because they too have been abused horrendously by PKK/YPG.

      Most Syrian Kurds have been transferred to Northern Iraq- they are refugees in the kurdish area- Isn't that amazing to think of?

      James and GC what do you both make of the fact that Russia, Turkey, China and India were willing to barters- link above- Turkey being the only NATO nation involved in trying to not use the American dollar- that could have been seriously troublesome

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    2. Penny, we know that nearly all the trouble in the world is sponsored by the bankers. We know that the bankers want to rule the world. They want to do this not only just for the sake of power over everyone but also to secure the power they already have.

      We know that their present power is based entirely on their ability to create the US dollars the world uses and the adoption of that currency by everybody else. So long as other countries have the option of not using it, the bankers and all their power is vulnerable. If nobody uses their money, poof, their power over others evaporates in a puff of smoke.

      Ruling the world means imposing one currency only; one that they control. This takes away the option for other countries to use another or their own currency or no currency such as barter (the old Soviet Union used barter extensively). When they achieve the imposition of their monopolistic currency, they will be safe. But not before that time.

      So BRICS countries and then Turkey using anything other than US dollars is a direct threat to the source of the power of the bankers; a threat that is growing day by day with the BRICS countries abandoning using dollars.

      Faced with extinction, there is nothing the bankers wouldn't do to survive - eradicate the threat. Turkey (Erdogan) was directly biting the hand that fed him.

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  7. syria 24 english ‏@syria24english 1h1 hour ago
    #Russia to raise issue of #turkey's troops in #Iraq at the #UNSecurityCouncil. #Putin and #Lavrov aren't holding... http://fb.me/4oy1DJdCZ

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    1. I saw that news and again much ado about nothing

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  8. getting deleted; thats new here...but not unexpected

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  9. James, GC, brian if your at all interested and anyone else..
    I just stumbled across this article from Joe Quinn at SOTT
    It pretty much reflects my feelings on the Turkey/Russia dynamic and the fighter pilot shootdown

    http://www.sott.net/article/307233-Always-the-last-to-know-Did-Turkish-government-find-out-about-shoot-down-of-Russian-jet-after-the-fact#

    "1) Running to consult with NATO and firing off a letter to the UN: this seems like a fear-based response by Erdogan's ministers. If they either planned the attack in advance or calmly made the decision after giving 'fair warning' to the Russian jets, surely they would also have considered the fall-out and planned for it, thereby affording a certain composure?"

    I noticed that reaction- Turkey's government reacted out of fear-

    he brings up other points which you can read, but, one thing he points out-
    It was the US that leaked the position of the Russian fighter jet to the media (over Syria) contradicting Turkey

    that's a message in and of itself

    Joe Quinn then raises the very important point that this may not have been a Turkish op or a Turkish pilot

    " Ok, I'll cut to the chase; there's a possibility that the Turkish F-16 that shot down the Russian jet was not under any official Turkish government orders. It may not have been under any official Turkish military orders either. In fact, its pilot may not even have been Turkish, or if he was, he may have been temporarily acting on behalf of another party with an interest in souring the Russian/Turkish relationship."

    Souring the Russian Turkish relationship- who would be interested in doing that? Hmmmm.....

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    1. I came to much the same conclusion as Joe Quinn. I covered this issue in my post Je Suis (Un) Turkey

      From my article-
      "So Turkey's ally, who had obviously approved the attack, was now dropping Turkey, or more accurately, Erdogan, deep into the proverbial.

      In no way was the US stepping in to prevent a retaliation from Russia. They, in fact, seemed to be encouraging Russia to respond militarily. What we are looking at here is a classic set-up to start a war. The bankers are past masters at this game and they need another war desperately now to stop Russia from ending the war in Syria, which the Russians and the Syrians are rapidly achieving. (There are also much larger geopolitical reasons for the bankers needing a war, any war, but that is for another article.)"


      See my article for the full context of the above comment. Initially, the US did not back Turkey and Erdogan was also initially very nervous. When Russia did not take the bait, the US suddenly turned around and backed Erdogan who, in turn, (on cue) became arrogant again.

      The whole thing was a set up with Turkey as the bait in the trap.

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    2. yes it may not have been turkish,,as ive been asking and noone knows the answer: WHO gave the orders ?

      nonetheless..youve got a russian plane shot down, and Erdogan defends the shootdown..rather than say:'oh my go who did that? who ordered the shoot down? we find no effort to uncover the villains...just like MH17.

      its turkish land, a jet came FROM turkey...or was it someone else flying undetected,who did it(israel?). an Erdogan must find out

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    3. brian: I posted Putin's words from immediately after the shootdown and imo it was clear which player shot the plane down- as in Putin made it abundantly clear

      NATO occupied Turkey
      not Turkey the nation state, rather Turkey the occupied state, occupied by NATO.

      http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2015/11/putin-warns-after-nato-occupied-turkey.html

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  10. Hey James
    I missed that one- right before my bday and right before loosing our Jasper :(
    If I could make a crying emoticon I would :(

    "The whole thing was a set up with Turkey as the bait in the trap"

    Yup!

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