Thursday, December 15, 2016

Russia and Turkey Pushed the West Out of Syria

Yes, they did! They made a deal on Aleppo and they carried it through to it’s conclusion.
It's undeniable that Turkey and Russia played a big role in the liberation of Aleppo

When I woke up yesterday morning (wednesday), thinking, as usual, about the day’s blog post, I said to hubby- We’re going to talk Turkey today. (But I was a day behind on this post- apologies)
So let's talk!
The Istanbul bombing. More of the same destabilization that's been going on for years now. But it also looked to me like a ‘shot across the bow”- A warning.  The timing of the Istanbul bombing, immediately preceding the imminent liberation of Aleppo?
 Syrians Celebrate Aleppo's Liberation   

2 birds with one stone?  

 It's undeniable certain very involved parties were less then enthused about the liberation of Aleppo So they lashed out. That lashing out at Turkey took the form of that massive suicide bombing in Istanbul on Saturday.  Perpetrated by America/UK and Israel's besties- PKK affiliates TAK-  Istanbul Bomb Blasts- TAK/PKK Takes Ownership

 And please, let's just call them the PKK- Cause at the heart of it all- It's who they are. And while we're calling spades, spades. Let's just call them a NATO stay behind army. (Gladio B, if you are at all familiar with Sibel Edmonds theory?  Myself, I don't bother differentiating. Stay behinds operations never ended) Cause that is what the PKK is.. and has always been.-  A Stay Behind Army

Dealings between Turkey and Russia

 Turkey’s deal with Russia had ensured, if handled well by all other players, that Aleppo would be liberated. And it was. One claim, from the linked below Bloomberg piece, that I find completely non credible?  The US was caught unawares?? They had no idea at all Russia and Turkey were even talking?? That's just not credible.
 The regular Turkey /Russia meetings were mentioned here.  Information taken straight from main stream media reports. How could the US have been caught unawares? Of course, they were not caught unaware! For what ever reason officials are spinning.

Recent posts noting Russian/Turkish cooperation regarding Aleppo & more

*Russia and Turkey Plot Endgame In Aleppo- October 12/2016


Turkey mum on Aleppo- Turkey quiet on missile defense deployments.- Turkey working with Russia to get fighters out of Aleppo etc., Putin and Erdogan also discussed the modalities of providing humanitarian aid to the civilians in Aleppo.
 Erdogan said, “We thoroughly discussed the Syrian issue. We talked about the Euphrates Shield operation and evaluated ways we can cooperate in this direction. We specifically talked about what strategy we may choose in order to help, from a humanitarian point of view, the inhabitants who are in a dire situation, especially in Aleppo.”

Putin noted, “We have a common stance regarding what must be done to deliver humanitarian aid to Aleppo. The issue is ensuring security for the deliveries of this cargo.”
*This Is The End Of Syria (?)

These three reasons are (1) the withdrawal of Turkish support for the armed opposition...

*Richard Haass- CFR President : Gap Growing Between Allies and Turkey

 "Increasingly Turkey is gathering behind the Assad Government"
"Is far more concerned about Kurds then getting rid of Assad Government"


I hadn't used this one here previously, but, had it saved for just the right time.
Firstly, Turkey’s military intervention [known as Operation Euphrates Shield], which was carried out with the approval of Moscow, with the official aim of fighting the Islamic State (IS) group. The operation saw Turkish military officials requesting the support of Syrian rebels. In reality, the purpose of Ankara's intervention was to prevent the Kurds from joining their two enclaves, Afrin and Kobane, into a contiguous zone. [Turkey has long maintained that it would not allow Kurdish YPG peshmergas from seizing territory west of the River Euphrates in northern Syria.]
But Turkey’s mobilising of Syrian rebels who originally fought in Aleppo (originally when?)  helped weaken the rebellion in Aleppo and thus facilitated the advance of the Syrian army.
All with the cooperation of Moscow. There are likely more, however I couldn't round them all up in a timely fashion- Let's move on to Bloomberg

Bloomberg: Russia and Turkey pushed the West out of Syria

Neither the U.S. nor European powers seem to have been aware that Russia and Turkey were negotiating a ceasefire and evacuation deal for Aleppo on Tuesday. After the capture of the ravaged but all-important city by President Bashar al-Assad's forces, this may be the new normal in Syria -- one in which the West is more of a spectator than an active participant.
Odd, it was contained in my post from October 12/2016?
Though the evacuation, planned for 5:00 a.m. Wednesday morning, was delayed by an outbreak of fighting, with the sides blaming each other as usual, talks are continuing, and Western nations are not part of them. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday morning that it was "pointless" to talk to the U.S.; negotiations with Turkey would be "more effective than many months of a pointless hangout we have had with the United States."
While the Western press discussed dire English-language tweets from the last rebel-held enclave of Aleppo,  the Russians and Turks were talking to the rebels and the Assad regime, trying to finalize Assad's victory. Their deal included a withdrawal plan for the rebels that would spare civilians further bloodshed -- something that would enable Moscow and Ankara to burnish their humanitarian credentials and claim the mantle of peacemaker rather than kingmaker.
What and the US didn't know- I posted on this in October!!
The U.S. had no idea about it. "I’m not aware that we had any indications that there were bilateral discussions to reach this kind of an arrangement," State Department spokesman John Kirby said when asked whether State knew Turkey, a U.S. ally, was involved in the talks. "So I don't know that there was any prior knowledge." Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, seemed unaware that a deal had been struck when she delivered a prosecutorial speech to the U.N. security council, blaming Assad's regime, Syria and Iran for "contributing to a noose around civilians" and asking, "Are you truly incapable of shame?"
I think the bag of hot air that is Samantha Power would have delivered her absurd speech had she known or not.  Maybe John Kirby and Samantha Power should read penny for your thoughts? LOL
At a press conference in Berlin Tuesday afternoon, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande spoke of a "disastrous" and "heartbreaking " situation in Aleppo, never indicating they knew a deal was in the works and slamming Russia for blocking talks. On Tuesday evening, Merkel and German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke to their Russian counterparts on the phone to discuss Syria, among other issues. By then, the deal had already been announced. The Kremlin readout of Merkel's call with President Vladimir Putin says, "It was agreed to step up bilateral contacts" -- a thinly veiled reference to Merkel's dismay at being insufficiently informed.

This is what happens when Western powers are neither willing to fight nor amenable to a deal. U.S. and European hand-wringing has done little to help the people of Aleppo -- something that will be remembered along with the bloodshed and the Assad regime's ruthlessness. Countries that have been willing both to fight and to talk have stepped up as the real players.
I'm not buying the didn't know claims- They had to have known Turkey and Russia were talking and they had to have known what it was about- Because it was openly reported on! Rather then work towards real peace France, US, Germany just wanted to undermine the opportunity for peace that Russia, Turkey, and Syria had worked so hard for!
"Not that the interests of these players are perfectly aligned, however. Russia and Turkey have diverging interests in Syria. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a sworn enemy of Assad, Putin his ally. Erdogan has a major problem with the Kurdish enclaves in Syria which he believes serve to destabilize the situation across the Turkish border. Putin has quietly backed the Kurds, and Russia has insisted they take part in any talks on Syria's future. A year ago, the Turkish air force shot down a Russian warplane after it briefly intruded into the Turkish airspace near the border, prompting a confrontation between Putin and Erdogan that lasted until Putin quickly and unequivocally supported the Turkish leader against a failed military coup.
"sworn enemy"- baloney: it's about interests.
There is no obvious solution to the Russian-Turkish differences on Syria short of the country's partition into a "Russian zone" and a "Turkish zone" along the lines of the pre-World War I division of Iran between Russia and Britain, a possibility Turkey expert David Barchard raised in a recent article for the Middle East Eye. Perhaps things are moving toward this kind of a solution right out of the Great Game era: Putin and Erdogan have been talking on the phone before making each major move in Syria. Neither has felt the need to involve Western nations"
A  partition of Syria into russian zone and a turkish zone? Wildly speculative. I wouldn't even engage in this type of speculation without way, way, way more information
It is now clear that Russia only negotiated the previous Aleppo ceasefires with the U.S. as a smokescreen for operations that just had one goal -- a military victory for the Assad regime. Turkey's reticence is more troubling for the U.S. -- but perhaps it shouldn't be surprising. Turkey is the only North Atlantic Treaty Organization member that has dared to put boots on the ground in Syria in an operation it has called Euphrates Shield. It has the military capability to make gains without U.S. help. Russian acquiescence is more important for that than the approval of NATO allies.
Really, Turkey is the only NATO member that has boots on the ground in Syria? This guy is a laugh riot- he really is. He must be unaware of the special forces the US/UK and France have on the ground in Syria (I believe Canadians too)
If the two countries now agree on how to handle a common threat -- the Islamic State -- they will be in a position to negotiate a post-war settlement with the various Syrian sides.
Would that be a bad thing?
Turkey and Russia need a fair division of responsibilities in the fight against Islamic State, hard as that may be to achieve. Turkish forces are actively fighting IS in the immediate vicinity of Aleppo, at the town of al-Bab, now held by the militants but, according to the Turkish government, encircled and about to fall. This is a sensitive area to the Assad regime, but Turkey's activity there appears to be OK with Russia as long as the Turkish army stays clear of Aleppo. Russia hasn't been actively engaged against IS lately, concentrating its firepower on Aleppo: It was even forced to withdraw a small garrison from Palmyra, the site of a major Russian victory celebration earlier this year, as the militants retook the historic site.
By refusing to take the risk of a ground force while backing the weakest side in the conflict -- the rebels who have now been pounded out of Aleppo and who have needed a lot of Turkish help to keep fighting elsewhere -- the U.S. has largely written itself out of Syria. Everyone, including the allies, has now seen the futility of relying on Washington for help or solutions.
Aleppo's humanitarian plight, the Assad regime's military victory and the gradually developing Russian-Turkish relationship in Syria mark a major defeat for U.S. foreign policy. It will reverberate throughout the Middle East and leave the incoming administration of Donald Trump with a hard choice: to play second fiddle in the region or to try to muscle in, preventing Russia and Turkey from dividing spheres of influence there.
 Putin, Erdogan discuss Syria, situation in Aleppo ― Kremlin
Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Recep Erdogan had a telephone conversation on Wednesday, in the course of which they discussed the Syrian problem and the ongoing situation in Aleppo, the Kremlin press service said.
"The two heads of state continued the exchange of opinions on the Syrian problem," the report said. "Specifically, they discussed the situation in Aleppo. They made emphasis on the importance of a buildup of joint efforts to improve the humanitarian situation and to give a start to a political process in Syria in practical terms."
 Moscow says easier to deal on Aleppo with Ankara than Washington
 "Around Aleppo there was a complex tangle of negotiations. ...As far as I understand, for us it was much more straightforward to reach agreements with Turkey than with the Americans,"
It's been a while I've been informing readers that a great many things have changed. It appeared to me some time ago that Russia and Turkey had been cooperating- When Aleppo was finally liberated I noticed  more then a few main stream sites openly blaming Turkey for it's failure to act in NATO/US interests in Syria-  

Including article such as this: Turkey continues to press al Bab, ignoring eastern Aleppo
 Signs that Turkey will avoid fighting with the Assad regime increased last month, (early november?) when Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus told MEMO last month that the operation to take Al-Bab will not extend to relieving east Aleppo, which is currently on the verge of falling.
East Aleppo was not a Turkish concern. Turkey securing it's border was the concern. Blocking the US backed Kurds was their concern. Eastern Aleppo?- their concern extended to assisting President Assad in his liberation operation
Richard Haass "Increasingly Turkey is gathering behind the Assad Government"
"Is far more concerned about Kurds then getting rid of Assad Government"
 If you didn't want to take my word about the change perhaps CFR President Richard Haass's statements will make the change more understandable?

31 comments:

  1. http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/turkeys-economic-turn-east-669986647

    http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2016/12/16/putin-erdogan-to-hold-syria-peace-talks-in-astana

    http://katehon.com/news/nazarbayevs-peacekeeping-mission

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  2. Hey Ally:
    looks like an interesting batch of articles- read the katehon one already

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  3. I tidied up the post- I was tired and rushed and didn't edit out my edits- hopefully it's all fixed now

    as always share some thoughts on the subject!

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  4. Hi Penny,
    just a small link to a information that nobody (in mainstream) wants to touch. It has nothing to do with your current subject but I thought it might interest here
    http://fr.whatsupic.com/nouvelles-politiques-monde/1481657094.html
    wikileaks has outed an Israeli link to the Paris attacks.
    The article is in french but all the videos and links come from english sources, so it should be not too difficult to follow.

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    1. hey gallier2!

      Wasn't there speculation a plenty about an Israeli connection?

      I'll check it out!



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  5. The terrorist attack also came a few days before Erdogan was heading to Kazakhstan. Interesting that you point out that Turkey got the terrorists to pull out of Aleppo and help SAA retake the city. Erdogan has now visited almost all SCO countries.

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    1. hey ally

      I'd written about the Russian/Turkish dealings on Aleppo in October-- Didn't realize about the SCO visits
      Should've mentioned that Turkey and China set up their exchange too!
      I believe just a few days ahead of the terror attack

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  6. Penny:

    Please don't fall for the trap of overoptimism, which has widely infected the SyrPer site, for example. Check out the following statement. It seems the US has just reserved the " right " to attack anything it deems a threat to its US-led coalition. As I always said, the real war begins when Aleppo falls.

    ” US-led strikes destroy tanks, air defenses near Syria’s Palmyra – military ”

    The US-led coalition battling Islamic State said on Friday it destroyed 14 tanks, an air defense artillery system and other weaponry near the Syrian city of Palmyra after IS seized the city this month. The strikes, which the military said in a statement took place on Thursday, followed a warning from the US military that it could strike weapons it believed posed a danger to the US-led coalition in the region. (Reuters)

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    1. Mieszko I, by the way

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    2. Hi UnKnown:

      'Please don't fall for the trap of overoptimism"

      I can guarantee that won't happen- I hope for the best but prepare for the worst in real world and blog world.

      Still there were deals made that have so far had a positive result for Syria- and that's a good thing no matter what may or may not happen in the future.


      "a warning from the US military that it could strike weapons it believed posed a danger to the US-led coalition in the region"

      a definite warning that can be applied broadly for sure.


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    3. Mieszko I, by the way

      glad you let me know!

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  7. The US military option in Syria has a "Best Before" date...January 20th. Everyone knows that so the US/NATO is virtually a lame duck. Of course, as I've said many times...the US is two factions, at civil war with one another. One faction is a "lame duck" while the other faction...led by Israel...is a loose cannon...ready to explode at any time into a false flag terrorist attack.

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    1. yah the neo-cons all for Israel seem to be working over time!

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  8. http://www.voltairenet.org/article194584.html

    if that reveals to be true it is huge. I had heard about it already several hours ago and it seems to slowly materialize. The Syrian army are said to have captured very high senior officers from the coalition of criminals, french, brits, us, qatar and saoudi. The article claims the UN security council is currently in a secret meeting to negotiate the issue. If true, it's huge.

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    1. Hey Gallier:

      I absolutely wouldn't doubt it- not at all

      Do you recall at the time of the marie colvin incident Syria had caught several French military men and there was an exchange at that time
      I'm certain I covered it, so, that Syria caught more now wouldn't surprise me in the least

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  9. Voltaire Network - The Security Council is sitting in private on Friday, December 16, 2016, at 17:00 GMT, while NATO officers were arrested this morning by the Syrian Special Forces in a bunker in East Aleppo.

    France did demand a meeting for today that I've heard little about yet..

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    1. Gallier2 et al:

      http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2012/03/i-have-so-many-reports-book-marked.html

      March 2012: So nearly 5 years ago..

      My commentary from that post italicized Oh and speaking of special ops... the mainstream media is finally covering the news that French soldiers had been arrested in Homs.
      Two commenters had left that information at the blog previously- Gallier and no6ody. Thanks!


      Here’s the scoop! Thirteen French officers 'captured by Syrian Army'

      Thirteen French officers have been captured by Syrian forces according to the Lebanon-based Daily Star newspaper, the first mainstream media outlet to report on rumours of Western troops on the ground.


      It takes us straight to the Telegraph

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9122749/Thirteen-French-officers-captured-by-Syrian-Army.html

      "The report claiming that French officers are on the ground came from the Daily Star, a reputable newspaper in Beirut.

      The Daily Star cites a Damascus-based Pro-Syrian Palestinian source as alleging that the French troops are being held in a field hospital in Homs.

      The source claimed officials in Paris and Damascus are brokering a deal on what to do with the French nationals. No explanation as to why the French troops had been in Syria was given nor was any indication as to whether they had been part of a larger contingent"


      Ynet covered it too

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4198622,00.html


      My suspicions from 2012 continued

      "Perhaps this was the real reason that the French Ambassador was in Damascus over the week-end. Despite the French embassy being closed in Syria?
      Was the Ambassador really there to negotiate for the release of the soldiers, as opposed to the happenstance recovery of the reporter?
      Smart money is on the negotiations for soldiers.
      Ah France, tsk tsk..all the blood on your hands.
      What war crimes are being committed in the names of your citizens?"

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    2. Penny:

      If true they will probably be released, which makes my blood boil. What is there to negotiate in the UN ? The french bastards were leading a terrorist army responsible for countless war crimes, and the destruction of a nation. They should be brought to Damascus tried for war crimes and publicly executed on international television. France has absolutely no excuse to cover their presence in a rebel Bunker in Aleppo. I hope this report is false, as I could see myself getting angry once again.

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    3. https://sputniknews.com/us/201612171048680073-trump-safe-zones-syria/

      Keep in mind Kissinger just met with Trump. Kissinger has advocated from the start a partition of Syria.

      http://fortune.com/2016/12/12/donald-trump-carly-fiorina-cabinet-transition/

      http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/07/carly-fiorina-bring-back-warrior-class-generals-petraeus-flynn-keane-mattis/

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    4. Those french troops accompanied the southern France shooting is not the teeth of the Sarkozy campaign.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulouse_and_Montauban_shootings

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    5. Penny, you have been quicker than me:

      Global Research, December 17, 201621st Century Wire 16 December 2016
      BREAKING: At Least 14 US Coalition Military Officers Captured by Syrian Forces in East Aleppo Bunker,By Patrick Henningsen and Vanessa Beeley,
      @http://www.globalresearch.ca/breaking-at-least-14-us-coalition-military-officers-captured-by-syrian-forces-in-east-aleppo-bunker/5563177

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    6. I should have added some more details:

      "Fares Shehabi MP, a prominent Syrian Parliamentarian and head of Aleppo’s Chamber of Commerce published the names of the Coalition officers on his Facebook page on the 15th December (emphasis added):
      Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
      David Scott Winer – USA
      David Shlomo Aram – Israel
      Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
      Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
      Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
      Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
      Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
      Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
      Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
      Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
      Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
      Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
      Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan...
      According to Alcharifi, captured “NATO” officers were from a number of member states including the US, France, Germany and Turkey, as well as Israel. Here is his statement (translated from French):

      “Thanks to information received, Syrian authorities discovered the headquarters of high ranking western/NATO officers in the basement of an area in East Aleppo and have captured them alive. Some names have already been given to Syrian journalists, myself included. The nationalities are US, French, British, German, Israeli, Turkish, Saudi, Moroccan, Qatari etc. In light of their nationalities and their rank, I assure you that the Syrian government have a very important catch, which should enable them to direct negotiations with the countries that have tried to destroy them.
      Although these initial reports describe the individuals in question as “NATO” officers, it’s unlikely they would have been carrying NATO colors on a covert operation – and might be more accurately labeled as US Coalition officers. Note that early reports suggest that these are not standard ‘street rebel’ or jihadi terrorists but actual Coalition military personnel and field commanders."

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    7. ty wizoz and good to know your still lurking about :)

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  10. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/21/iraq.syria

    http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/world/318358

    http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/opinion/315790

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  11. An interesting blog that I have just discovered talks about Kurd crimes against civilians in Syria. http://www.raqqa-sl.com/en/?cat=1&paged=2

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  12. O/T but fun and I do hope their neighbors of yours.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhKMu8jrfw

    I see little true-dough doesn't like the mary-jane people.

    The nato people if ,WOW and may be tried for war crimes in Syria then traded.

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    1. True dough only like the people that can pay the big bribes- pay for play and the Trudeau government is a big scandal here right now-

      Very Hillary Clinton like!

      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-price-trudeau-pays-for-failing-to-address-cash-for-access-scandal/article33357738/


      https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2016/11/28/making-sense-of-justin-trudeaus-cash-for-access-scandal-walkom.html

      So many Canadians 'believed'- grrr... stupid, stupid people

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  13. http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/middle-east/318441

    http://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2016/12/17/putin-tells-erdogan-russia-ready-to-enhance-cooperation-with-turkey-on-anti-terror-fight

    http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/kurdistan/318600

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-linked-to-lobbyists-behind-istanbul-bombers-hbb3hhdb6

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisis/2016/12/17/labour-party-leader-linked-to-pkk-lobbyist-corbyn-british-daily-reports/amp

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    1. thanks Ally
      busy day yesterday- family birthday for one a a visit with another one- tis the season

      I will catch up

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  14. Mieszko IDecember 16, 2016 at 3:35 PM

    Why your comment went into spam is beyond me??

    The french soldiers that were caught in 2012 were likely released- and anyone caught now?? which seems entirely plausible will be released as well

    However it's interesting the wiki link left by an anon regarding the shootings in France- the victims 3 highly trained parachutists??? I'll be they were cleaned up for a reason- got rid of so no talking could occur


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