Saturday, December 10, 2016

Turkey, Syria, Iran and the Adana Agreement: The End of Pax Adana

The Adana Agreement concerning the PKK has been mentioned here on more then one occasion. I've suggested people read up on it. Don't know who has and who hasn't however the time has come to write about it here.

I'm going to start with a link to an article from Washington Institute

Hurriyet Daily News--- (A news outlet I personally take issue with- NATO/ Atlanticist- Publisher of the blown out of proportion Erdogan quote- It's agenda is obvious. It's a source that always needs to be verified. Hurriyet is the favourite of many disinfo/misinfo sites)

The End of Pax Adana

Pax is the kiss of Peace-  Ecclesiastical. kiss of peace: a period in history marked by the absence of major wars, usually imposed by a predominant nation.
Pax Adana means the end of  this long peace filled kiss.  Who wants this agreement to end? What nations will benefit when Iran, Turkey and Syria are torn to shreds? My readers know which nations will benefit- A nation born of brutal violence, death and displacement may just materialize- Greater Kurdistan. The last of a trio of other nations created in recent memory from brutality violence, death and displacement- Israel and Kosovo. The NATO terror trio.

 "One of the unintended consequences of the Arab Spring has been the PKK's reemergence as a player in Iran-Syria-Turkey relations.
Although Turkey is not an Arab country, the Arab Spring is shaping Turkish affairs in important ways. Political changes in the country's neighborhood have ended the equilibrium between Syria, Turkey, and Iran over the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), a group that has waged a violent campaign against Turkey for decades. This has meant the end of the Pax Adana, a regional balance characterized by the Syrian and Iranian promise not to support the PKK.
In 1998, Damascus signed a protocol with Ankara in the southern Turkish city of Adana promising to cease its support for the PKK. Iran joined in on that consensus in 2003.
Now, Syrian and Iranian support for the PKK is back in the spotlight as Syria's disintegration and Turkish-Iranian competition demolish the foundations of the former status quo.
Turkey has been down this road before. During the 1980s and 1990s, Iran supported the PKK to undermine Turkey's secular democratic political system -- the regional antithesis to the Islamic republic's authoritarian style of religious governance. Syria saw usefulness in the PKK as well.
For Hafez al-Assad, the PKK was a convenient instrument to help settle old scores over the disputed territory of Hatay -- and more directly -- to force Turkey's hand on water-sharing disagreements from the Euphrates and the Tigris.
By the late 1990s, Ankara had run out of patience against Syria. Turkey beat the war drums by conducting NATO exercises in the region as well as independent mobilizations on the border with Syria.
In the face of Ankara's threats, Syria signed the Adana Protocol in October 1998, shut down the PKK bases on its territory, imprisoned hundreds of PKK militants, and expelled PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan from Syria, leading to his capture in 1999.
For years since, Damascus has largely held up his end of the deal. One Turkish intelligence analyst even remarked that if Ankara wanted Syria to extradite a suspected PKK member, "Al-Assad would extradite not only that person, but all his cousins, as well."
This was a good agreement for all parties. It kept the peace between Turkey, Syria and Iran regarding the PKK. It had them all on the same page. Iran signed on in 2003 because after the US invasion of Iraq the writing was on the wall..   Iraq's disintegration was a foregone conclusion and a Greater Kurdistan aka Israel 2.0 was bound to appear. Turkey, Iran and Syria needed to keep their peace and work together to prevent their disintegration.
"This agreement underwrote a new pattern of friendly relations with Syria -- and Iran jumped on board in 2003, concluding that winning Turkey's approval should be part of its broader regional strategy. This shift was a reaction to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, which prompted Tehran to decide it needed to win over its neighbor Turkey to balance the threat from the United States encircling Iran. Tehran therefore severed its ties with the PKK the day U.S. troops landed in Iraq.
These developments ushered in the era of Pax Adana. The PKK did not go away, but at least it was prevented from becoming an irritant to the stability of regional relationships.
With the advent of the Arab Spring, this era met its sudden demise: Syria's consequent implosion has placed Iran and Turkey in an unquestionably adversarial position as Turkey leads the anti-al-Assad camp while Iran is committed to supporting the essential regional asset it sees in the al-Assad regime.
Accordingly, Tehran has an incentive to bring the PKK card back into play in order to make Turkey take its concerns seriously. Last year, Iran's semi-official news agency, Press TV, reported that Iran had captured the PKK's second-in-command, Murat Karayilan. The air of mystery Iran cultivated around the alleged capture gave the clear impression that Iran was brandishing its PKK clout against Turkey. Recently, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc charged that the PKK had relocated some of its bases from Iraq to the Turkish-Iranian border. The U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Francis Ricciardone, echoed these charges when he claimed that Damascus was providing Iranian arms to the PKK.
For the PKK, the demise of the Pax Adana is a new opportunity. With newfound traction in Syria and Iran, the PKK has recently launched a renewed campaign of violence against Turkey.
Revolutions can usher in changes in unexpected ways. One of the unintended consequences of the Arab Spring has been the demolition of the Pax Adana and the reemergence of the PKK as a player in regional politics between Iran, Syria and Turkey, once again."

Soner Cagaptay is director of the Turkish Research Program at The Washington Institute. Tyler Evans is a research assistant in the program.
 I completely disagree that the reemergence of the PKK was a so called unintended consequence of the bogus Arab spring. It was an intentional reemergence/consequence
Part of the remake of the entire region- The PKK playing the role they have played for so long.... Years ago I called them a NATO stay behind army- That's their role. Along with drug running, human smuggling, and worse.

Turkey's entry into Northern Syria- Operation Euphrates Shield

 It seems very likely and perfectly sensible that Turkey & Syria had an understanding regarding  what would occur should Syria fail to uphold the responsibilities agreed upon in Adana.

*Thinking rationally about the Adana agreement and all it entails regarding PKK and company
*Thinking rationally about Turkey's attempt to secure it's southern border- By building a wall and entering Syria.  

Operation Euphrates Shield appears to be response to Syria's failure to uphold the Adana Deal

Bashar al Assad would have known that Turkey would undertake these actions.  In fact, one should entertain the possibility that Syria did not focus on the northern border with the idea that Turkey would intervene. Allowing Syria to focus attention elsewhere. With the benefit of Russia's watchful eye and guidance.





Background, briefly.

 I'm addressing the issue with the PKK and the Adana Agreement as it concerned Syria’s dalliances with the PKK to the chagrin of Turkey. Syria under Bashar’s father Hafeez was quite happy to allow the PKK to use Syrian territory as a base of operations. In order to be a thorn in the side of it’s neighbour- Turkey. Going so far as to keep the terrorist Ocalan safely in Syria. (Living in luxury apparently)

This nearly brought Syria and Turkey to war. It was a war Syria was in no position to win.
 

Let’s go back to 1998-
The crisis started when Gen. Atilla Ates, commander of the Turkish land forces, spoke near the Syrian border on Sept. 16. Ates, called on Damascus to expel Abdullah Ocalan and the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

The drums of war echoed throughout the Middle East as Turkish tanks seemed poised to roll into Syria. Unwilling to go to war, the government of Hafez al-Assad, father of the current Syrian president, complied with Ankara’s demand and expelled Ocalan.
  Turkey gave Syria a choice-Get rid of Ocalan, stop sustaining these terrorists, or we will invade. If Turkey was a truly despicable nation state, with expansionist tendencies, like ISRAEL ( a nation that uses any excuse to steal territory/resources with the excuse of protecting itself ) Turkey’s leadership wouldn’t have even given Syria the option. They would have simply invaded. With the help of NATO, assuredly. Turkey did not do that in 1998.

 Maybe Syria's relations with Russia at the time impeded Turkey?
Presently Operation Euphrates Shield is not supported by the US or any other NATO so called allies..

After the incident in 1998. Hafeez Assad quickly sent Ocalan out of the country. Ocalan ended up in Greece. Not a surprise, really. Given Greece’s big time NATO subservience. But Greece didn’t want him for reasons I shouldn’t need to get into here.

-Interview with the Greek Intelligence Officer involved in the affair discussing how it was the Americans finally got Ocalan sent to Africa- Kenya, specifically, where they and Israel had influence:

With Abdullah Ocalan From Athens to Nairobi 
Exclusive interview with former Greek intelligence officer Savvas Kalenteridis - Ekurd.net

Q: When did you first meet Mr. Ocalan?

A: I met him after he was forced to leave Syria and came to Greece. On October 10, 1998 the Greek government asked me to accompany Ocalan in a plane to Russia. The Syrian government gave Ocalan four days to leave their country. Meanwhile, Ocalan had contacted a Greek MP in order to help him find a way to stay in Greece. Ocalan arrived in Athens from Damascus on a Syrian Airlines plane, which was going to Stockholm, the Swedish capital.

Eventually Ocalan went to Kenya-

 No one wanted to shelter this man- He was a political hot potato. His cult like followers are violent- His female aids threatened to burn themselves in protest- When Ocalan was finally caught............

"The arrest ignited a series of violent attacks on Kenyan, Israeli, Turkish and Greek Embassies in Europe. In a series of a coordinated attacks, the Kurdish protesters broke into embassies and consulates threatened to immolate themselves and their hostages. Then 14 men and two women broke into the Kenyan Embassy in Paris and held several Kenyan diplomats hostage for three hours. Another group lay siege on the Kenyan Embassy in Bonn, Germany.

For several days and in some instances, weeks, Kurdish protesters made life in several Kenya’s embassies in Europe a living hell, although the Greek and Turkish embassies got by far more savagery"
The PKK’s wacked out followers are violent. Crazed cultists. Get it?! This is not all the Kurdish people, this is sadly a large enough segment of fanatical sunni muslim kurds, both dangerous and violent, who will stop at nothing to advance their cult agenda even if it means killing other kurds, arabs, who ever may get in their way- As evidenced by the abundance of abuses the PKK/YPG/TAK etc are engaging in as proxies of the US and Israel.

That’s a tiny bit of the background as it relates to Syria sheltering terrorists.


Additional background info to consider:


Statement Made By İsmail Cem, Foreign Minister, On The Special Security Meeting Held Between Turkey And Syria October 20, 1998 (Unofficial Translation)

 Link


UPDATED: December 12/2016: Definitely Adana Agreement Related

* Was Syria Cooperating Militarily With Turkey Against The PKK? I Would Say YES

The article was written in 2010-

 Syria maintains good ties with Turkey out of concern over Kurdish nationalism, perceived as a threat in both countries. Syria especially fears that the new Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq could affect its own Syrian Kurds. [3] Unrest in the north-eastern Syrian city of al-Qamishli in 2004 convinced Damascus to take harsher measures against Kurdish nationalists. Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in Syria, with their community of 3 million forming 16% of the population. The Syrian government is highly critical of federalism in Iraq, and prefers a strong central Iraqi government. Unlike Turkey and Iran, Syria does not have a consulate in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq.

 So when the US birthed the Kurdish autonomous zone in Iraq in 03, they knew very well that this would destabilize Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran. Talk about killing many birds with one stone?

Ties between the two nations have also grown due to the increasingly assertive foreign policy of Turkey’s ruling Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi (AKP - Justice and Development Party). The Turkish-Syrian rapprochement began before the Islamist AKP came to power in 2002. Previously in 1999, Syria had signed the Adana Treaty on security cooperation with Turkey. [4] The seven years of rapprochement under the AKP have brought about a significant strengthening of Syrian-Turkish ties. [5] This has resulted in visa-free travel between Syria and Turkey and joint cabinet-level meetings. These good relations have created positive changes for the Kurds in Syria, since Kurds in both countries no longer need visas for cross-border visits.
Early on in the campaign to destroy Syria, I had a Syrian fellow from Aleppo here- He was extremely credible and really polite- He talked about exactly that "resulted in visa-free travel between Syria and Turkey" Aleppo was the business centre and much work and business crossed the border from Aleppo into Turkey and visa versa
Last summer media reports suggested there was new Syrian-Turkish security cooperation against the PKK. (2009) According to the state-run Anatolian News Agency (ANA, a.k.a. Anadolu Ajansi), 400 PKK members were arrested in the Syrian cities of Aleppo, Kamishli, Afrin, al-Hasaka and Ar-Raqqa and 11 PKK fighters were killed in joint Turkish-Syrian operations at the end of June 2010 (ANA, July 1).  In addition, sanctions were taken against Kurdish families supporting the PKK. The New York Times described this as a sign of growing Syrian cooperation with Turkey (July 1).

 The presence of PKK in Syria and the subsequent arrests jibes with other information posted here regarding the presence of PKK in Syria training fighters

45 comments:

  1. Ok so three hours went into this post- three hours freely given- read and share some thoughts- read all linked material- don't become irrational because this is realpolitik

    Realpolitik (from German: real "realistic", "practical", or "actual"; and Politik "politics", German pronunciation: [ʁeˈaːlpoliˌtɪk]) is politics or diplomacy based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises.

    We don't have to like it, we just have to live with it!

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    1. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-us-moderate-islam-mistake-.aspx?pageID=517&nID=107113&NewsCatID=586

      In a nut shell. The hegemon is the problem. Well written piece.

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    2. Hey Charles!
      been meaning to say Hi
      I;ll give the piece a read.
      Merci!

      Delete
  2. Very enlightening. I had not heard of this agreement. I am assuming the subtext of this article is that you believe Turkey never attacked Syria with proxies during the current conflict? If I am not mistaken, you believe that ISIS is the Kurds and these are the Western/Zionist proxies who invaded Syria and, incidentally, sold all that oil to Turkey; and stole Aleppo's industry for Turkey?

    You can see why I am confused. My understanding of the current conflict is that Erdogan and Turkey are neck-deep in the invasion of Syria. Erdogan was promised Ottoman 2.0 by Obama (think Saddamn and Kuwait) but did not realise he was being setup. Turkey was always slated for partition, just like Iraq and Syria.

    I have read reports of ISIS travelling back and forth across the Turkish-Syrian border; of ISIS fighters receiving treatment in Turkish hospitals. That Turkman fighters shot those ejected pilots then fled back to Turkey.

    If my understand is correct then Turkey broke the Adana agreement. Perhaps now a new Adana is rising from the ashes now that Erdogan has seen the light, i.e. his country was always targetted for Greater Kurdistan.

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    1. My contention is that Assad may have taken a calculated risk- knowing Turkey would be compelled to intervene to block a Kurdish state

      And that the precedent was set and present in the Adana agreement.

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    2. You are right. It was Turkey that broke the Adana treaty by attacking Assad.
      Erdogan believed he would be Sultan, after the US would bring Muslim Brotherhood goverments to power all over the ME. Erdogan was very powerful in 2011. He changed policy all the time, & was extremely erratic.
      He, along with his Gülenists allies, had marginalised the nationalists in the army, through the Ergenekon trials, so they couldn't resist.
      I always say that AKP are village idiots, & that was why they were played so easily by the US.

      I believe Adana is now in function again.

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    3. Its important to note that Assad invited the PKK to Syria, early in the war, in order to close the border with Turkey, where jihadis and arms were daily crossing over.

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    4. Hi Rescue: I respectfully disagree with the idea of Turkey breaching Adana (regarding PKK) unless you mean something else?

      In the agreed upon text Syria was not to shelter the PKK- there was no provision for Turkey because they didn't ally themselves with PKK

      Also pkk came to Syria in 2010- I've articles here reporting on that.. they came and they trained kurds resident in syria- by 2010 Syria was in full breach of the agreement whether Assad was involved or not.

      When I find the article it will be relinked here

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    5. Okay, I would really like to see that article.

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    6. I'm going to add it and another one to the main post, though I've linked one in the comments below
      bear with me- I've got nearly 4000 posts it might take me a while...

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    7. Grrr... Rescue I'm having a hell of a time finding it in all my posts

      It came from this site

      http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/

      I'll try again later- sorry :(

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    8. Seems a critical point is the emergence of ypg and the Syrian militants. Syrian kurds and the rojava project have mobalized what was a quasi autonomy without federalism.

      Delete
    9. Neo ottoman was the brainchild of the now "retired" Prime minister Dav. Also consider the wsj hit piece a few years ago onn fidan after he allegedly blew the mossad operation in Iran. Fidan was just in Iran meeting with the supreme leader policy advisor while aker was meeting joint chief. Fidan made that trip after the alleged drone strike by what the pentagon says is a Iran drone. Turkey remains a country divided.

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-turkey-blows-israels-cover-for-iranian-spy-ring/2013/10/16/7d9c1eb2-3686-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html?utm_term=.d60bedebde96

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    10. Thanks anonymous at 10:42 am

      Anonymous 10:54 am- Good Point Davatoglu pushed the Ottaman Dream- important point
      and I recall the WaPo article

      Was unaware Fidan was in Iran
      Still don't trust Akar..
      I'm afraid Turkey does remain a country divided

      Delete
    11. Rescue: Finally, I found the article!!!

      Linked in this post:

      What if Russia attacked Syria's Kurds on behalf of Assad?: Rudaw

      http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2015/11/what-if-russia-attacked-syrias-kurds-on.html

      Knew it was from Atlantic Council...

      http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/the-kurds-and-the-future-of-assad

      "Many PKK fighters returned to Syria during the civil war. Jordi Tejel, an expert on Syrian Kurds says, “already in April 2011 the PKK sent one thousand armed fighters to establish the YPG in Syria.

      The partial withdrawal of Syrian security forces from northern Syria in the summer of 2012 allowed the PYD to become the main political as well as military actor in those regions.”

      So by early 2011 when PKK had one thousand armed fighters to train/create YPG- My mistake on the 2010- apologies.

      Not sure if Assad invited them or they came as part of the larger agenda?

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    12. Thank you!
      I read a long article, whic I sadly can't find, which went into long detail about the relationship between the PKK, Syria & Iran. It stated that Iran encouraged the PKK to fight in Syria, instead of on their border, in return for arms & support. Assad too wanted them to secure the border with Turkey.
      I remember when it happened, Turkey accused Assad of supporting terrorism, LOL, when thet were arming and enouraging every jihadi on the planet to invade Syria.
      Turkey broke the Adana treaty & is now paying a high price for it.

      Delete
    13. Hi Rescue: What got lost in all the discussion was my idea that Syria had taken a calculated risk knowing Turkey would intervene? I've never found Assad to be overly caustic about Turkey's presence. Not really. Perhaps he's not as bombastic as Erdogan however...

      I see Turkey has leafleted al Bab

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4891852,00.html

      If SAA and allies (including Russia) go west after Aleppo this might demonstrate more cooperation then some have considered..

      While I was searching for this article again I was back at the Atlantic Council site and found some real interesting article regarding Turkey and western displeasure with Turkey..
      In 2009 and it got me thinking some more. I'm going to post them later on
      Thanks for stopping by!

      Delete
  3. PS It was that Bernays quote that finally forced me to admit to myself that Western democracy was a charade. He openly published that definition of democracy in 1928. That is when I fully understood that our elites' definition of democracy simply means manipulation of the masses. That is Orwellian.

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  4. That kind of chimes with the notion that Erdogan (or Igor as I call him sometimes) finally woke up to the bigger plan, i.e. Turkey was always for the chop in the Zionist kitchen.

    I sincerely hope that the Turks, Iranians and Syrians are now working together again to put this particular evil back into Pandora's Box (Pandora Rosenblatt is her fully name in this instance ;) )

    As for Russia...we'll see. I think whatever betrayals (if any) they had planned,events are now pushing towards the maintenance of Syria unity.

    I also hope that the Syrian Central Bank will stay Syrian and not become "indepedent",i.e. Rothschild controlled. This is another think you need to keep an eye on.

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    1. So many spelling errors in those posts. Apologies.

      Delete
  5. Great article Penny. This has to be 1 of my favs since I didn't know any of this. It is fantastic how you get most of your info from the mainstream media and your word definitions too. Amazing what you can find if you really read between the lines. I believe that Turkey was set up against Syria in the same way that Iraq was set up against Kuwait. There are a lot of similarities between Erdogan and Hussein. I do wonder if these PKK supporters will do the same things in Europe again 1 day. I think they already are since the PKK is attacking Turkish people/businesses in Europe but no one seems to report on this. The fact that Greece didn't want either Ocalan shows exactly what a nuisance this cult really is- you would think that Greece would want to hide him to annoy their enemy Turkey! would like to be optimistic and think that Turkey, Syria and Iran have intelligent leaders and that they are cooperating to some extent. Since discovering this blog, I have learned a lot about the Middle East and don't think of Erdogan as the big bad guy anymore (although he is guilty too). Yesterday, Assad said that Rojava is 'temporary' so I think that very soon, Syria will begin its war against the PYD. The Nato alliance is crumbling. Interesting that the 'alt' analysts still claim that the US and Turkey are together. How can they not see it? I am just wondering, at the time when all the attacks on the embassies were taking place, was it featured on the news and how was it presented?

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    1. Hey Ally:

      glad you enjoyed the post :)

      I define words so that you, a reader here, any reader here, will understand where I'm coming from - then we're on the same page. It helps to clarify- Or at least that's what I'm going for.

      I agree that in some ways Turkey was set up regarding Syria- Just the destabilization of Syria alone would be an obvious destructive force for Turkey- and so many other things that ocurred

      I absolutely do NOT believe ISIS was a Turkish creation- ISIS came to Syria from Iraq- ISIS was created by US/UK- filled with Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds- (fresh blood and remnants of the Afghan operation) Turkey had nothing to gain from it's inception-

      Anyone pushing that concept is fooled or lying IMO


      Yah funny Greece didn't want Ocalan, however Cyprus is happy to have so called Kurdish 'refugees' permanently present--- on a british military base for 17 years

      https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/politics/2015/12/19/cyprus-refugees-hope-courts-end-17-year-wait-on-uk-base

      Somehow they also manage to protest in Nicosia all the time for the media of course.

      Quite a curious situation

      Erdogan is no angel, but then what leader is?
      None of them.
      Is he better or worse then other leaders? Who really knows?
      I'm not privy to that info. To his credit he appears to be a Turkish nationalist, unlike Gulen, let's say..

      When the Kurds ran amok???-I didn't pay attention to that news at the time- Our daughter was young, I had home and work obligations which kept me very busy.

      But if your interested I'm certain you can find more about it

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    2. I'm starting to believe that the alt media is even more Zionist infested than the MSM, no matter how extraordinary it sounds.

      Delete
    3. @Penny

      "I absolutely do NOT believe ISIS was a Turkish creation- ISIS came to Syria from Iraq- ISIS was created by US/UK- filled with Sunni Arabs and Sunni Kurds- (fresh blood and remnants of the Afghan operation) Turkey had nothing to gain from it's inception-

      Anyone pushing that concept is fooled or lying IMO"

      Nobody stated that Turkey created ISIS (that is a strawman argument); most of us think that Turkey eagerly facilitated ISIS. What were all those oil-laden trucks doing heading for the Turkish border, that Russia subsequently destroyed?

      Are you saying that Turkey never joined in the attack on Syria? That is the only reading to be got from your assertion that Turkey did not break Adana.

      We all want to see the Zionist forces defeated; we know that the Kurds are also Zionist proxies; but Turkey has also played its evil part in serving the West in Syria. That is undeniable.

      Delete
    4. Can't believe how no one can see the destabilisation of Turkey, Penny? It is just so in your face. http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/305021-our-ally-turkey-is-in-crisis-and-needs-our-support
      Any new info?

      Delete
    5. hey ally
      just trying to get a quick post up on the recent attack for documentation

      Delete
    6. "Are you saying that Turkey never joined in the attack on Syria?

      Never stated that anywhere and have written about Turkey being the conduit for attacks on Syria countless times

      "That is the only reading to be got from your assertion that Turkey did not break Adana"

      speaking of strawman?


      "1. Syria, on the basis of the principle of reciprocity, will not permit any activity which emanates from its territory aimed at jeopardizing the security and stability of Turkey. Syria will not allow the supply of weapons, logistic material, financial support to and propaganda activities of the PKK on its territory"

      Turkey broke the Adana agreement. That much is clear- While Adana was largely aimed at preventing Syrian PKK cooperation- Turkey breached on the principal of reciprocity

      Delete
    7. Fair enough. So long as Syria and Turkey are now singing from the same anti-Kurkdistan hymn sheet then all is well.

      I only responded because you seemed miffed that after 3 hours work, nobody was posting. I completely agree with the general thrust of your site, especially with regards to the...must not swear...incredibly mendacious Kurds.

      Delete
    8. I seemed miffed that no one responded???
      Not sure how you came to that conclusion??
      I wrote the comment immediately after finally posting..check the times?

      I posted at 4:30 and my comment went up at 4:33-
      A three minute time difference

      It was a general encouragement to read and think.
      Which clearly paid off :)



      Delete
    9. Lol. I never thought to check the times. Somehow I conflated the writing time with you waiting 3 hours for a response. Doh. And I thought, "Okay then, I better do my bit and help with the discussion."

      "It was a general encouragement to read and think.
      Which clearly paid off :)"

      True dat.

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    10. In my opinion Erdogan has been one of the worst leaders in the world, in the last 5 years.
      He has gambled the entire Turkish nations future, because of his own ambition & vanity.
      He is not a nationalist. A nationalist would not have done what he has done, because the intention was to expand Turkeys influencec as per Davutoglus neo-Ottmanism.
      Erdogan is not against Kurdish autonomous zones either, not in Iraq, in Syria & neither in Turkey itself. As long as they are under Turkish control.
      Erdogan persied such a policy. He intended to turn Turkey into a federation with a powerful President, he still does, IMO.

      Delete
    11. AnonymousDecember 11, 2016 at 3:12 PM

      it's all good :)

      Delete
    12. Rescue from here (the way outsider view) he looks much more nationalist- the western media hates his nationalist tendencies.

      they ridicule his 'iliberalism' Did you hear the comments from the CFR guy? Scathing.
      Ridiculing the trade in currencies of each nation Erdogan wishes to engage in.

      I understand though where your coming from because Erdogan often annoyed me in all my time writing about Syria- he's much more practical now in his rhetoric- seriously- the change is noticeable

      Delete
  6. Thank you Penny for this informative background (I didn't know about either). It's truly amazing how this Sunni Kurd cult acts, operates, and is hated just like Israel (and SA sadists too). Those three are indeed the worlds most evil and depraved. It also has been proven that by (using) them... one is playing with fire. Hence Pax Adana. We have all been burned by woes of these three evil alliances and now the US will get her return in full. Like what Ally said in ref to the Kurd destruction in EU...I do know there are Kurd communities in the US (but not saying or knowing of which kind). All I know is when you play with fire, you get ...

    We all need a Pax Adana... :)

    And now with all of this recent ballu about Fake News and Free Speech...it makes clear how desperate these three evils are hell bent on fulfilling Israel's plan...as I believe they are all Jews and crypto Jews silencing everyone, every power, and every court to achieve their final goal.

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    1. You're welcome- The PKK/Sunni Kurd cult is, like any other cult, dangerously fanatical.
      I do keep in mind that there are many so called Kurds that do not identify with this lot of violent crazies
      They have been persecuted regularly by the PKK
      It's just insane really. As Ally says "the kurds" are not one big blob- they can't even agree between themselves who qualifies for kurdishness and who doesn't despite the garbage pushed by the msm

      Delete
  7. http://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2016/12/10/some-want-to-wash-their-hands-clean-in-syrian-issue-before-they-leave-says-fm-cavusoglu

    http://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2016/12/10/life-barely-back-to-normal-in-sur-as-pkk-denounced-govt-called-on-to-take-action

    http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/world/317044

    http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/world/317056

    http://www.dailysabah.com/war-on-terror/2016/12/11/perpetrator-of-istanbul-blast-came-from-pyd-controlled-syria-intelligence-sources

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    1. Hey Ally- I saw the news on the blast and will gather up some stuff today regarding it- horrific
      the police services took a big hit- expect the alt media to call this a false flag- it most certainly isn't!

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    2. Been reading available sources I am familiar with. From what I've gleened, your assessment is spot on. Definitely no false flag there. Anyone suggesting such is a moron or a paid dispenser of misinformation.

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  8. I'm going to add a link to a previous post above
    however putting it here as a comment for now

    Was Syria Cooperating Militarily With Turkey Against The PKK? I Would Say YES

    http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2016/03/was-syria-cooperating-militarily-with.html

    The article is from 2010-

    Recent media reports suggest that a new phase of Syrian-Turkish military cooperation has begun against Kurdish militants of the Parti Karkerani Kurdistan (PKK - Kurdistan Workers Party) in Syria. However, a closer examination of the rapprochement between Damascus and Ankara and their respective policies on Kurdish nationalism reveals accounts of greater military cooperation may be premature.

    In the past, Syria has supported the PKK against Turkey and allowed the PKK to recruit Syrian Kurds to fight against Turkey. [1] However, this changed after Syria decided to force PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan out of the country in 1998, when Turkey threatened to invade Syria. After 1998, Syria started to crack down on remaining PKK networks and forged better ties with Turkey. On Öcalan’s orders, most PKK rebels moved to the Qandil Mountains of northern Iraq.

    Syria maintains good ties with Turkey out of concern over Kurdish nationalism, perceived as a threat in both countries. Syria especially fears that the new Kurdish autonomous region in Iraq could affect its own Syrian Kurds. [3] Unrest in the north-eastern Syrian city of al-Qamishli in 2004 convinced Damascus to take harsher measures against Kurdish nationalists. Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in Syria, with their community of 3 million forming 16% of the population. The Syrian government is highly critical of federalism in Iraq, and prefers a strong central Iraqi government. Unlike Turkey and Iran, Syria does not have a consulate in the Kurdistan region of northern Iraq.

    Ties between the two nations have also grown due to the increasingly assertive foreign policy of Turkey’s ruling Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi (AKP - Justice and Development Party). The Turkish-Syrian rapprochement began before the Islamist AKP came to power in 2002. Previously in 1999, Syria had signed the Adana Treaty on security cooperation with Turkey. [4] The seven years of rapprochement under the AKP have brought about a significant strengthening of Syrian-Turkish ties. [5] This has resulted in visa-free travel between Syria and Turkey and joint cabinet-level meetings. These good relations have created positive changes for the Kurds in Syria, since Kurds in both countries no longer need visas for cross-border visits. [6]

    Last summer media reports suggested there was new Syrian-Turkish security cooperation against the PKK. (2009) According to the state-run Anatolian News Agency (ANA, a.k.a. Anadolu Ajansi), 400 PKK members were arrested in the Syrian cities of Aleppo, Kamishli, Afrin, al-Hasaka and Ar-Raqqa and 11 PKK fighters were killed in joint Turkish-Syrian operations at the end of June 2010 (ANA, July 1). In addition, sanctions were taken against Kurdish families supporting the PKK. The New York Times described this as a sign of growing Syrian cooperation with Turkey (July 1). There were also claims that Israeli-made Heron drones from Turkey were used against the PKK in Syria (Gazete Vatan, July 23). At the same time, Turkish media talked about clashes between the PKK and Shi’a militants in Lebanon (Hürriyet, July 13). But Turkish security analyst Emrullah Uslu thinks it is unlikely that Herons would be used in Syria. [7] The PKK has no armed presence in Syria or Lebanon.

    etc.,

    This increased cooperation between Turkey and Syria makes sense in the context of my understanding about when the PKK entered Syria and began training fighters in earnest

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  9. The TAK (soup bowl as you call them) has claimed responsibility. People are saying that Erdogan will blame the Kurds/PKK. Wtf?! Do they not see it? Seen a video shared by a friend of a mother crying because she lost her son who was studying to become a doctor. Others losing their sons/daughters. Young girl with red hair also crying. Very sad. http://aranews.net/2016/12/elite-forces-led-former-syrian-opposition-chief-join-sdf-fight-isis/

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pkk-offshoot-tak-claims-responsibility-for-deadly-twin-bombings-in-istanbul.aspx?pageID=517&nID=107172&NewsCatID=509

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/crowds-flock-to-site-in-solidarity-after-besiktas-terror-attack.aspx?pageID=517&nID=107170&NewsCatID=339

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  10. TAK posted it right on their website- No blame necessary- No bashing Erdogan necessary

    And no advantage to Erdogan or the Turkish state in targeting civilians and having the law enforcement they desperately need killed

    It's the same spin as was put on assad and qadaffi and the guy from yugoslavia

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  11. For the sake of readers who don’t know the context, one of the reasons why Penny wrote this article was in response to some friendly head butting we did at greencrow’s blog.

    There I wrote, “But as long as Turkey has boots on Syrian soil I do not trust them. Correct me please if I am wrong, but Assad did not invite them.”

    To which Penny replied, “How are we defining invite? Are you familiar with the Adana agreement?
    The Adana agreement is in effect to my knowledge and an intervention to block the Kurds would require no invitation from Assad. It's a given.”
    And she wrote, “...the Adana agreement is like a standing invitation.”

    Thank you Penny for posting this article. I feel like we were imposing a bit on GC with our discussion.

    I hope you didn’t write the article just for my benefit. I may be frequently wrong, but I’m seldom in doubt, so your effort is wasted on me.

    Several things about the Adana agreement and the present situation are striking.
    1. The Adana agreement itself is not accessible in English. Somebody please post a link if you have found it. I can neither confirm nor deny that it contains any language authorizing either country to combat unilaterally the PKK on the other’s country’s soil. Although it isn’t relevant I’m curious about the text.
    2. Syria signed the agreement in 1998 because at that time Turkey was threatening to invade. In other words, Syria signed under duress. Syria signed not in order to invite Turkish military intervention but to avoid it.
    3. Turkey backed away from all of its agreements with Syria in 2011 when Turkey's minister of foreign affairs, Ahmet Davutoglu said, "We are completely suspending all of these trade relations, all agreements between Turkey and Syria have been suspended." The phrase, “all agreements”, includes the one signed at Adana.
    4. As if to underscore the statement that “all agreements between Turkey and Syria have been suspended" Turkey took a leading role in the proxy war against Syria. Turkey committed all the hostile actions summarized by Anonymous above. In other words, Turkey’s deeds have matched Turkey’s words. Turkey did not merely suspend the Adana agreement. Turkey utterly destroyed it. Turkey has no legitimate grounds for putting Turkish boots on Syrian ground.
    5. In 2016 we see that whereas Turkey does not have the support of the US and NATO (quite to the contrary!), Syria’s legitimate government enjoys the support of Russia, China, Iran, Iraq, Hezbollah and, significantly, the majority of the Syrian people.

    To Penny’s arguments at GC’s blog I say that we don’t have the text of the Adana agreement, and therefore we don’t know if it invites unilateral military intervention; but even if it does it is no longer in effect because Turkey has blasted it to tiny bits.

    Given point #5 above one might argue that Turkey would not have invaded Syria without some back channel negotiation with Syria and her allies. However, points #3 and #4 raise a question. Why would Turkey demolish an agreement that was in Turkey’s best interest? In other words, is Turkey evil or stupid? This is similar to asking whether a glass containing equal volumes of air and liquid is half empty or half full. It is a matter of perspective. Throughout history we can see that evil is ultimately self-destructive. Evil is stupid that way. I say that Turkey is evil. Others might say that Turkey is stupid. Add to these considerations point #2 that Syria has been seeking to avoid a Turkish invasion ever since the 1998 Adana agreement, if not before then.

    Now suppose you’re Assad, and Turkey asks you via back channels whether you will accept a limited invasion for the purpose of containing the Kurds. You know that Turkey is a significant military power capable of inflicting serious damage before you and your allies can respond effectively. You know that Turkey is evil, stupid or perhaps both. In 1998 Syria had no choice, but in 2016 you can choose. Would you invite Turkey’s military to cross your border?

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    1. Thanks for stopping by here Singing Sam!

      No I didn't write it for you, it's an idea that been rolling around in my head for a while- because as I've blogged on Syria and Turkey I would come across these weird occurrences that suggested there was more to what was going on behind the scenes then had met the eye..

      SS- 'Ahmet Davutoglu said, "We are completely suspending all of these trade relations, all agreements between Turkey and Syria have been suspended." The phrase, “all agreements”, includes the one signed at Adana."

      Interesting because Davutoglu was the pusher of the idea of Turkey's superiority- He was Mr Ottoman Empire

      SS " Why would Turkey demolish an agreement that was in Turkey’s best interest?"

      Why would they? Unless... see this is where I get into quandaries.. Why would Turkey do that? Why would Mr Dav do such a thing?

      See this is where I see behind the scene machinations playing out- Notice the US and co really like the order out of chaos deal and Mr Dav was very, very pro western- Was he undermining Turkey? As Rescue says Davutoglu was evil and Erdogan, maybe not stupid, but more irrelevant given the ceremonial status Turkey's presidency really holds.

      SS " But in 2016 you can choose. Would you invite Turkey’s military to cross your border?"

      Good question! One I can't entirely say no to.
      As I said because Russia could act as a guarantor of sorts. Also because Turkey is itself in a precarious position- it can't invest too much militarily in Syria IMO- Just plain not sure

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  12. I can't find singingsam's post, but here is an english translation of the Adana Treaty:
    http://www.mafhoum.com/press/50P2.htm

    I believe that Turkey is both evil and stupid.
    Davutoglu was evil, Erdogan was stupid.

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    1. Thanks Rescue- will read it now :)

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