Monday, March 2, 2009

Tim's Law complete with product promotion?

Family of man killed on Greyhound bus pressing for 'Tim's law'

McLean's family is selling T-shirts, buttons and fridge magnets to support its effort to press the government for the legislation. The items are made by Speer and her husband, who operate a promotional product business in Winnipeg.
(Speer is aunt to Tim Mclean)

Understanding everyone grieves differently, and as a parent, I feel for this family and this mother. That said, I disagree with the very concept of Tim's Law. It seems by it's nature inhumane and as a Mother, I do not think I would want my childs name linked to an inhumane law. Mentally ill people have long suffered at the whims of society. For having a brain that does not function correctly. They have been imprisoned, beaten, tortured, drowned, electro-shocked, does anyone think it is pleasant or wonderful to be mentally ill?

Vince Li is not going to go free. He will likely be incarcerated for the rest of his life. I do not see how Vince Li can be held "responsible".

Also recalling the brutal murder/dismemberment and tortures conducted by Paul Bernardo and his wife, Karla Homolka. I do not remember their victims families promoting products to support any political efforts.

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I don't know. It could be just me. But, that is my opinion. And, if anyone wishes to disagree with me, please feel free, but do so with courtesy. Don't use the cover of anonymity to attack people who have a different opinion. That is cowardly.


  1. I do agree, I am a mom & grandmum,
    I think if you are mentaly unstable
    to this exstent he should be kept under lock and key, There are many different kinds of mental illness and most lead "normal" lives, not killing and such! mental illness is controlable with meds, And I dont feel he would be responsable enough to take his meds on his own!
    I know freinds who are on meds and struggle every day but would not go do something as horrific as ths!


  2. Hi angie:

    you assume that he will be let out, it is extremely doubtful.
    Therefore a law of this type, is tarring all with one brush.

    I agree there are many different kinds of mental illness and most people who are mentally ill can and do lead relatively normal lives, I say relatively normal, because their are frequently times they have psychotic episodes and require hospitalisation and med adjustment.

    You may know people who are on meds and struggle everyday, but there is not a way in hell you KNOW they would not do something as horrific as this.

    The sad truth is people who are not mentally ill, do things worse then this everyday.

    No one ever see's it coming.

  3. This type of person cannot be treated. this person cannot be productive, cannot be trusted cannot be functional. Put him in a place that will let him have 1 hour a day to see the sun and the rest in a room the size of a small cage. Do you really think he will make sure to take his meds every day? Thanks Doc!

  4. CMIII

    is that knowledge or assumption?

    What is "this type of person"?

    You see while Vince Li will not see the light of day, and will not be freed.

    Tim's Law will sent a precedent that will do more harm then good.

  5. Hi Penny, I think it would be prudent to ask you the same question. Are you basing your comments on knowledge or assumption? We do not know if Li will be allowed to go free, and we can be equally unsure if this law will do more harm than good. If he is successful in his bid to use mental illness as a reason, it will leave the door open for him to be freed as soon as a panel sees fit. We can not be sure that the precedent set by 'Tims Law' would be beneficial or not, as there has been no precedent set. I personally an not sure where the answer lies, but I do think that a world without Mr Li would be safer.

  6. Bill:

    I do not know for certain, but from what I have read, it is highly doubtful Vince Li will ever be free.

    I posted some of the testimony from the trial.

    I know of a case in Ontario similar to this, a murder, the perp was sent to Penatanguishine, that is where the criminally insane go.
    He has not been released to this day, some 20 yrs later.
    So, in light of what has come out thus far from the trial, I am doubtful he will ever be free.

    As for Tim's Law, it is my opinion that the law will cause more harm then good, it is also, if you follow the news on this saga, the opinion of others who act in the interest of the mentally ill.

    Regardless, the mother and again this is my opinion, would be better serving the memory of her son, by aiding in the removal of societies stigma surrounding the mentally ill.
    Thereby ensuring sufficient treatment is received and tragedies such as this can be prevented.

    I left some info regarding mentally ill and violence in another post.

  7. I disagree with the statement alluding to Speers, and the promotional material. The fact that the aunt operates a promotional supply business suggests, that they may be using the resources that are familiar to them

    I support the families effort to foster this debate. Because I work in I.T., when I wanted to become involved, I immediately registered and created a website,

    merely the world I am comfortable in...

  8. I realize fully the aunt operates a promotional business, what I find tasteless is the promotional material being used in this manner.

    I have never seen anything like this before, is it for profit for god's sake?

    It is amazing really, have we become so used to the rampant commercialisation of everything that a family commercializes a child's death??

    Hence the bad taste.

    16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

    I believe that the severly mentally ill are not acountable for their actions. The criminal code agrees. To lock up vincient Li for life on account of a murder commited during a schizophrenic episode is unjust. This is a situation with two victims and I believe in some cases, no one is responsible for murder. The Law states for a crime their must be an actus reus (the guilty act) and mens rea (the guilty mind). With mental illness the actus reus is present but the mens rea is not. How can one have intent when they do not understand the nature of what they're doing?

    Sorry McLean's family but Vincent Li is not criminally responsible and if Tim's Law amends the crminal code then Canada is a country I would not be as proud to be a citizen of.

  10. Thanks for that bit of info curtis