Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Vince Li Trial

Winnipeg Free Press had a reporter Bruce Owen "twittering" from the trial. You can read it here

I followed it, reformatted it and fixed the typos.
I also have some additional questions

Li in court, the reporter observes his dress, that he has lost weight and is shackled.

Li pleads not guilty.
His Lawyer goes through some of Li's background, that info is not reported on here.
Nor is it covered in this news story
Details about beheading recounted in Winnipeg court
Sole issue for judge is whether accused should be held criminally responsible
“Dalmyn told court about Li's background, which included coming to Canada in 2001 from China and becoming a Canadian citizen in 2005“
Any information given regarding his life in China, how he came in as a skilled worker?

Winnipeg Free Press Reporter notes: Li leaves note for his wife “I am gone, don’t look for me. I wish you were happy.

The court hears: Li distraught on bus. Li stabs Maclean with black handled knife, for no apparent reason. Mclean fights back and tries to escape. Li grabs him and continues attack. Li tries to get off bus, is prevented, goes back to behead Mclean. Witnesses see Li with Mcleans head in one hand, knife in the other, he tries to exit bus again and is prevented. Further mutilates Mclean with scissors and knife. Li says he has to stay on the bus forever.(though he has tried to leave twice) Crown says Li ate the body parts. He is seen licking his hands of blood (doesn’t mean he ate anything) Li denies that he did this. Li is tasered as he leaves the bus holding body parts in a bag. 1/3 of Mcleans heart and both his eyes missing, parts never found.
I note here the response, or I should say non-response of the RCMP is not questioned, no surpise there.

Judge calls for recess, when back from recess will start discussing issues of sanity. Did he know right from wrong??
Back to trial
Dr. Stanley Yaren called by the crown takes stand
Yaren tells court he saw Li nineteen times, for a total of 12 hours.
He also spoke to Li’s wife
Yaren says Li suffering severe psychotic disorder, hearing God’s voice, needing to protect himself.
Sat next to Mclean, because Mclean gave him a nod.
Li told Yaren, God told him Mclean was “force of evil” out to kill him.
Li then “commanded” by voice to behead Mclean, so Mclean could not come to life.
Yaren tells Winnipeg court Li is schizophrenic

Can Li be treated for eventual release from secure hospital/facility. Who is asking this question, I am unsure?
Yaren: Li is gentle, polite, humble, respectful of authority and a hard worker
Crown: Why kill Mclean?
Yaren: “He genuinely believed he was about to be executed”
Crown: Why the greyhound bus
Yaren: Didn’t matter . Could be anywhere.
Crown: Why did Li’s illness get worse?
Yaren: Stigma of mental illness. Denial of it. (Is Yaren suggesting the stigma associated with mental illness caused Li to deny his condition?)
Crown: Was McLean’s killing predictable?
Yaren: No, Li had no history of violence

Court resumes:
Dr. Stanley Yaren: Says Li mutilated in delusional frenzy so McLean cannot come back to life.
Crown: If Li allowed off GH bus would mutilation happen?
Yaren: We'll never know.
Yaren : Li denies eating body parts of McLean. Appears to be out of mind.?
Crown: What's chance of recovery for Li?
Yaren: Li has potential for significant recovery.
Crown: Is Li faking?
Yaren: Not logical to become monster and then fake it so quickly.

Reporter: Going through Li's prior mental health run-ins in ONT. Few years before McLean's slaying.
But he is not mentioning when , where, ??

The court is told Li diagnosed w/ schizophrenia in ONT. Heard "God's" voice then.
Yaren tells court Li disputed finding and did not need treatment.
Did he actually say a diagnosed schizophrenic did not need treatment, or did he say Li would not get treatment, because I am having a real problem with that comment.

Court hears that while beheading McLean on bus, Li told driver to "Call emergency."
Driver off the bus, did he scream it through the window? Unclear

Yarin tells court Li expressed regret, that maybe he made mistake by listening to "evil god".
Yarin: just recently Li expressed regret for McLean's family.
Yarin: says Li believes he will be punished by God for his deed.
Yarin notes Li is on anti-psychotics.
Yaren: most recent delusion for Li, God tells Li to starve himself to death.
Crown: When can Li be released?
Yaren: We don’t know
Crown: If Li fd NCR where should he be held? (fd??)
Yaren: Secure hospital ward. Li still danger to us and himself.
Yaren:Li a decent person. Li a victim just like Mclean and McLean's family..
Yaren: says McLean's grieving family should not hate Li.
Yaren; don’t hate the person, hate the disease,"
Yaren tells court. "Blame the stigma for people not getting help".
( I agree with that and what a stigma it is!)

Another recess
Reporter: "if Li not fit to stand trial is up to QB Judge John Scurfield although it appears to be already decided based on testimony."
it was already decided that Li is fit to stand trial, read here:
Accused in bus beheading fit to stand trial
October 6, 2008

Li's lawyers now in x-exam (cross-examine) of Yaren, hammering home Li was deeply delusional on day McLean killed + mutilated.
Yaren finishes testimony. Yaren ends saying Li thought sun was source of voice in his head.
Court adjourns


  1. I think this man should be sent off to jail.. I dont care if his plea is "Insanity" anyone can fake insanity... 2 many people are getting away with murders because of this plea. Li belongs at least in prison if not dead.

  2. so he is under 24 hour surveillance, 7 days a week and he is faking insanity?

  3. Funny how the loons crawl out from under the rocks. Easy to pass judgement esp. when one comments as anonymous.

  4. I notice silverfish, what I also notice is the over the top sense of righteousness emanating from some of these comments.

  5. So the voice in his head said to kill Tim Mclean. Did the voice tell him to carry a knife too? Why did he have a knife? Suggests intent to me.
    I agree with Tim's mother, a crime was committed, yet there is no responsibility assigned to this crime, just excuses.

  6. If the judicial system (certainly not a justice system)has decided that the opinion of medical experts is to decide the outcome of these types of cases then that should open up the medical community to even more civil law suits as they are the ones who will ultimately determine whether or not these people walk the streets.

  7. Donalda:

    lets see

    "So the voice in his head said to kill Tim Mclean. Did the voice tell him to carry a knife too? Why did he have a knife?"

    Maybe the voice did tell him that, who knows, not you or I or anyone else, it is unknowable.

    "I agree with Tim's mother, a crime was committed, yet there is no responsibility assigned to this crime,"

    Then you are mistaken, as is Tim's mother, if that is what she said.
    Responsibility was assigned, Vince Li was named as responsible, no one denies he murdered Tim Mclean.
    No one at all.

    What the judge said is he is not criminally responsible, that is because he was not of the right mind, he could not comprehend his actions, to be found criminally responsible, one has to be sane, rational.
    BUT, he is responsible for this crime, and I have seen no one deny this fact.

    I will say to you the same thing I have repeated on this blog, and I am not condoning Vince Li behaviour, nor excusing his actions. I can only urge you to take a more positive stance in understanding the disease of the brain, for what it is, and thereby enabling you to make a more valid contribution to what is a worthy debate.

  8. I am a pysch nurse schizophrenia can be an incidious,misunderstood disease for sure. Most schizophrenics do not behead and mutilate innocent people. My question is how did Vince Li get into Canada? Satistics prove most schizophrenics especially men have their first physcotic breaks in early adult hood.Send him back to china and let them deal with him.

  9. (1) "What the judge said is he is not criminally responsible,...(2)BUT, he is responsible for this crime, and I have seen no one deny this fact."

    Only in the realm of law can those two statements be seen as different.

  10. I have met Li, more than once and I saw him in a psychiatric facility.

    I don't know for sure what Vincent Li thinks of me but I do know that he is a decent person and that he fell victim of a telepathic prank (of someone pretending they were God to him via telepathy.)

    I think Li needs to understand THAT and then he should be easily allowed out in the public unescorted; for he will have grown a defence to people like that.


    Jason Damien Falken