Tuesday, January 10, 2012

Part 2: The dungeon house, the fire and the questions

Following up on yesterday's post, the bizarre dungeon house and the conveniently timed fire.....

had done a brief post on this story. In that post is contained this little tidbit.
Before I get to that, let me place the video here that is contained in the preceding post.

This video was shot by a photographer for the Toronto Star. Who was on the receiving end of a "welcome wagon" when he shot the video.

Contained within this article, is the response to the intrepid reporters investjgation

" the suspicious eye of a roving government-hired security guard, who, along with four police officers, rushed to the area to deal with a curious Star reporter Tuesday morning."
It was a given that after the containment room/dungeon was found in the abandoned home, security would or should have appeared. I would assume 24 hour, round the clock security, would have been undertaken at the house.
After all, one would think that there would be a great deal of interest in who had constructed the dungeon. Therefore surveillance would be undertaken to see who comes and goes from the house.
Where was the surveillance the night the house burned down to it's foundation?
Isn't it odd that no one saw anything, or reported that the house was burning until it was very nearly gone. Where was the private security? Where were the police?

Smoke from a Pickering farmhouse seen through trees near Concession Road 7 in Pickering, Jan. 6, 2012.

Picture from this article

A fire has destroyed an abandoned farmhouse in Pickering that was the subject of a police investigation after a “confinement room” was discovered inside in November.

The fire reportedly started around 12 a.m. Friday at the 136-year-old farmhouse on Concession Road 7 at the York-Durham Line.

Durham Regional Police made an appeal for tips last month after contractors discovered a recently-built “confinement room” in the basement of the empty house that was slated for demolition. The workers alerted police who opened an investigation.

The first officers to arrive at the scene after the bizarre discovery was made in late November believed the room was built for the sole purpose of keeping someone captive.

Here is the report of the discovery from the Durham Regional Police
Is it interesting to note the gap in time from the date of discovery by the demolition person and notification of the police, to the date the police go public with the information.
Nearly a three week gap. Therefore the police had abundant time to investigate and gather evidence.....Or undertake other actions, as necessary.

19-Dec-2011 13:09 PST

Investigators are asking the public for assistance in locating the person(s) responsible for building a confinement-style room in an abandoned home in northwest Pickering.

On November 29, 2011, contractors surveying an abandoned residence on Concession Road 7 in northwest Pickering discovered recent construction had taken place in the basement of the residence. As the abandoned residence is slated for demolition, the contractor contacted Durham Regional Police.


  1. Not only did Councillor Rodrigues make the specious comment about teenagers and amateur filmakers using it , he finished up with ' maybe a maniac' - implying a single person [ with amazing muscles and a master-builder [ mason] to boot'.

    I might imagine some security at the next door golf course, apart from the fact that the cops can't do their job, re: surveillance.

    If there'd been complaints of teenagers smoking weed they would have.

    Considering Fritzl, Dutroux [and doubtless many others] you'd have thought they'd try a bit harder.

    Reading the comments at the local papers everybody else knows exactly what it is.

    I wonder [ from afar and with few facts] if Rodrigues might not know a little more than he's letting on, considering the Heritage stuff and being on the council, ear to the ground - pure spec.

    Some commenters wondered if it wasn't run by a Secret Service of some kind


  2. Security services (spooks) very likely.

    - Aangirfan

  3. It looks to me to be a very well made grow room. Painted white for light reflection, chains to raise and lower the lighting system, bench for seedlings, very difficult to break into.

    Getting electricity to it might be problematic but people do get creative.

    Just speculating.

  4. good thought, Kenny. And that would account for the water.

    But its a lot of expense to go to to grow a little dope. Plus, the main problem for a dope grower is the police and the more fortified the room is the more attraction it is going to cause and you are not going to keep the police out in any case (unless you can order them out).

    So i think we are back to keeping someone in or keeping curious golfers out or both.

    In pondering the involvement of the State in criminal acts, the question to ask is always, "What should have happened and didn't?"

    Penny has asked, "Why no surveillance? Why no security?" The question itself points to government involvement

  5. You may be right James, I don't know but I'll continue.

    With proper techniques,that size room could produce maybe 4 or 5 lbs. $10k or more in sales is not insignificant in a short growing season. The expense in building the room would not be that much. If the police suspected a grow room, no need for surveillance. It was empty and without heat in the winter no one would be coming back to do anything with it. Except maybe to burn it but who would know that.

    As with any grow room, people take a chance that it won't be discovered. I guessing but there must be tens of thousands of them in this country and Canada.

    Numerous relatively small rooms have been busted just in my area in all kinds of places. Under the house, in sheds, garages, caves, electricity stolen from neighbors not even close etc. One thing they all had in common was that they looked very similar to this one.

    Of course if it was a torture or confinement chamber, the appearance of it being a grow room makes for a good cover.

  6. The lack of heating and therefore lack of surveillance is a good point, Kenny. You have expertise or knowledge i do not.

    A couple of questions occur though. If it was a grow room, would it be reasonable to expect traces of this to be left behind? And would the police simply say it was a grow room?

    I'm not trying to argue the point, it's just that i'm very curious now.

    If it was a torture room, you'd think there would be traces, at least, of body fluids of one sort or another present unless the place was professionally cleaned down. In which case, why leave the chains and water?

    In fact, forensics could have established what the room was used for whatever it was. Why no forensic investigation? Or no report of an investigation? The police have had plenty of time to do this.

  7. James, as far as I can tell, the police may have done some kind of forensics but it would not be typical for them to tip their hand on findings without an arrest being made.

    Most likely, as with so many other things, this story will go down the rabbit hole and we'll never know for sure what that room really was.

  8. If it were a grow room perhaps the police would have cut their losses and gone for a good bust.

    Also electricity supply?

    Nevertheless 'growshop' does delay us from going for the more conspiratorial thread , as in 'hold on , lets not jump right in'.

    I wonder who , in these financially trying times, would build something secretly for thus no way to make any profit back from it.

    Would someone build on land that may get taken over for a possible airport?

    Does that mean it might be temporary?

    Apologies for amateur sleuthing


  9. Hey aferris, I'm not trying to divert from conspiracy, you know me I like looking into a conspiracy, just saying what it looks like to me. I wouldn't underestimate the payback and ingenuity of people who have the nerve to set up a grow room even if they knew it would be temporary. If that was the case, I'd look at someone connected with the owner. Maybe they knew he never checked on the property?

    Even if it was for some other purpose, for some reason they must have thought the owner would never find out.

  10. I wonder if they had brought in drug sniffer dogs or cadaver dogs in the first place they might have been onto something? but conveniently it got torched. Maybe the room was dual purpose with the knowledge of the towms police/ security/masons...we all know that they are involved in the drug trade, esp weed ..they have vested interests in the growing/manufacture and the enforcing so it's a win win..
    but more sinister uses it looks like as well..some kind of local S & M Fetish room for the "big" boys perhaps??? chains come in handy for that too...
    Cheers A13

  11. Hey All!
    Regarding grow up vs something else or a combination of the two

    some points to consider...

    a demolition contractor notified police 20 days prior to public notification.

    In the 20 days, a lot could have taken place in the room that the police would have had access to

    What evidence they gathered, if they did gather evidence how far it went.... who knows

    The fire took place just over two weeks after the police went public with their concerns about the confinement room.

    No one was around when the fire was set, no police, no security.
    To witness anyone setting fire or save any evidence....

    That alone is very bothersome.

    While a grow op can't be discounted there is a problem of heat, and electricity
    Pickering is north of Toronto, on the lake, it is cold.
    There is also insulation lacking on the walls

    I took the time to look at grow op pictures, from previous busts.

    I noticed there are drip watering systems.... so the plants receive water when no one is around

    That type of system would be a necessity if this was a grow op

    Instead we have jugs of water

    I agree we will never no for certain what was going on there.

    Whatever it was.. someone turned their back to allow the arson to take place.

    The properties are owned by the federal government

  12. clarification
    by drip water system, I am referencing a hydroponic set up

    "I agree we will never no for certain what was going on there."

    Should read we will never know for certain....

    always happens when I am in a hurry :)


  13. "always happens when I am in a hurry :)

    And so you should be!

  14. Hi Kenny , thats what I meant, I didn't think u were diverting but adding a relevant point.

    The ownernership seems confused, somewhere between Transport Canada and Heritage Pickering, which seems to put it out of the general public's hands.

    Thinking abouta Growshop - there's windows and often growing indoors involves lights so they would be seen + electrical supply and thus large electric bill.

    The chains don't look very powerful, but perhaps they don't need to be.

    As usual we get a partial view of events and are unable to mount a decent investigation [ via the internet].

    On the other hand we will be frustrated by the law and the media who will do their fuzzy-wuzzy best to keep tings vague


  15. Here I am properly chastised.
    And intending to mind my p's and q's
    Not promising but intending

    I don't get the impression at all that Kenny was attempting to divert.

    Just a different opinion.

    I did some scouting around on grow op stats and found out most marijuana grown in Canada is grown in BC,60%, which makes sense, that is the most temperate area of Canada

    also the most radiated.

    Also found a grow op map


    It seems pickering either hasn't had any grow ops or hasn't had anyone caught with a grow op

    I gave this more thought
    grow up vs something far more nefarious

    I am throwing my lot in with something more nefarious
    For one simple reason-

    No one goes back to burn down a busted empty grow op
    If the crop is already harvested, the equipment can be repurchased.

    Put simply it would be a fools errand to take the risk of being caught to go back and destroy an empty grow up

    Therefore, something else had to have been going on there

  16. Hey Penny for your thoughts,
    Of course the McGowan Laurel Canyon comparisons exist. Fires were used there too, as a way to remove evidence.
    I was drawn to compare the video scene with scenes in the Hollywood blockbuster film "Silence of the Lambs".(small rural town, low profile building where the "perp" carries out his or {her?} crimes) Thomas Harris, the author of Silence of the Lambs and Dave McGowan should collaborate to solve these weird real life crimes.

  17. Hey Peter

    how are you?!

    "Of course the McGowan Laurel Canyon comparisons exist. Fires were used there too, as a way to remove evidence."

    Yah, that definitely crossed my mind!
    houses with tunnels and creepy rooms just burning to the ground..
    gram parsons and fire

    Silence of the lambs... now that was a creepy movie.

    One thing is for sure about this house and it's timely demise

    some of us will always wonder
    and only a few will know