Tuesday, April 8, 2014

Ukraine has no demarcated borders?

What to make of this?

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has made an interesting statement on Ukraine, which, for some reason, was overlooked by the Ukrainian media. That’s according to the Ukrainian Choice news portal. The United Nations Security Council has, for the umpteenth time, considered the Ukrainian issue, and experts made a rather unexpected conclusion.

 It turned out that Ukraine has no official boundaries. Since the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991, Kiev hasn’t demarked its borders. Nor has it registered at the United Nations the demarcation of its borders as a sovereign state. The Voice of Russia talked to political analyst Dmitry Babich.

What is happening there?
What is behind this? Well, I tried to dig behind that story and I couldn’t find any confirmation except a lot of reports in Facebook which are of course unreliable. But I would say that although it is quite clear that Mr. Ban Ki-moon’s sympathies in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine are clearly on the Ukrainian side, there is that problem: I remember how the so called friendship agreement was signed between Russia and Ukraine in 1997 and at that time the problem was that both sides agreed not to have territorial claims against each other but the question of the demarcation of the border remained on their agenda.

So, there are still some inaccuracies, there are still some not quite clear points, you know, about this border. But I think it is of course a minor issue compared to what is going on right now in Eastern Ukraine and compared to other problems that Ukraine might have with this new government, with its other neighbors. So, to my mind, indeed the world is going to see that the break up of the Soviet Union was a tragedy because if you look at the ethnic map of Russia, Ukraine and neighboring Moldova, you will see that this is a real fruitcake and the formally Soviet borders which used to be just administrative borders inside the Soviet Union suddenly became important in 1991.

And suddenly now we see how dangerous the situation is when there are millions of Russians living in Ukraine, there are hundreds and thousands of Russians and Ukrainians living in Transdniestria, who don’t want to live in Moldova, which may merge with neighboring Romania.

So, you have all of these very, very difficult ethnic issues which suddenly became important right now when we have the break-up of the Soviet Union, we have the new states and we have the nationalist government in Kiev

that little pink blob in the centre is Ukraine
 With later additions coming from Russian territory and leadership
Stalin (green)
Tzars (yellow)
Kruschev (mauve) obviously Crimea
Lenin (blue)

I had saved that map from a link that was left here some time ago...
When and if I can find the link I will add it

So, the question is... What land makes up Ukraine?

Don't miss the first post- Ukraine: Sniper historical rewrite & Ukraine terrorists captured in Russia


  1. same as israel

    EU and the Camel
    Why EUtopia EUropa is Nowhere for EUkraine:
    It's the old tale about the camel and the tent. On a cold night in the desert, a bedouin's camel nudged his nose inside the tent to keep it warm. It felt so good, he stuck his head in too, then his neck. Finally he rolled his whole body into the tent. Now where did the tent go? he wondered.
    The EU started out as a country club of rich countries, metropoles of erstwhile colonial world powers. It was a lovely little club, with high subsidies for farming to keep cherished touristic landscapes as picturesque as ever. Then they started letting the camels in, large and small... probably to do NATO's work for the Americans. In any case, the club tent has cold comforts left to offer any new campers, camels or steppe-children.
    In short, the EU was a rentiers club for retired empires. Not the place for younger, poorer, upwardly mobile nations trying to make their mark in the world. Theoretically a group of equal nations, but the old guard had to ensure their prerogatives over the arrivistes. One solution was hidden forms of internal protectionism, such as debt, restructuring, privatization, locking up markets and putting local industries out of business. Lacking a dynamic economic philosophy, the EU had no way to make a tent big enough to shelter everyone. Even the bedouins are shivering now.
    The EU is now home to over half a billion people. It is a tall order to provide a high living standard to such a large population. Europe must import raw materials and energy, yet its high wages make it difficult to compete in manufacturing. Thus the core countries outsource work to the newer, poorer members. Countries like Poland supply components for German industry, while shutting down or selling off their own industry. It's a new form of colonialism within Europe. When recession hits, the sharecropping "colonies" are hit hardest, and are left without levers to try and build up their own economy.

    1. brian

      the problem is globalization
      It is by design a means to turn the planet into one large ghetto
      and it is succeeding quite well- driving wages down, leaving the planet polluted and leaving the human beings, used up- because globalization turns people into resources
      same as everything else- to be used, abused and tossed aside
      we don't need an 'economic philosophy'
      we need to go back to localization- with trade as needed
      this reliance on external sources leaves us extremely vulnerable
      shipping food from china makes no sense when a disaster of some sort happens there- the world will starve.

      makes me think of that old saying not putting all your eggs in one basket
      which means don't count on any one thing, diversify, spread things around
      of course the saying has it's etymology in farming
      but the point is still the same
      the globalists have put all their eggs in one big globalized basket
      and we will be hurt by it
      As is plenty obvious in all the former first world nations
      mine included

  2. User Actions

    Владимир Груздев
    Субъекты России окажут помощь подшефным территориям Крыма. Тульской области доверено взаимодействие с Керчью. pic.twitter.com/mFr3BW934T
    Translated from Russian by Bing Translator
    Subjects of Russia will provide assistance to the sponsored areas of Crimea. Tula oblast has been entrusted with Kerch. pic.twitter.com/mFr3BW934T

  3. "Several days ago three masked men gave Kiev an ultimatum that if by April 5th the Kiev authorities do not announce a national referendum about federalization of Ukraine, the People’s Army of the East will start the national uprising. They weren’t kidding. When the 5th came and went and no referendum was announced, people took to the streets."

  4. 'On the one side we have a government that has carried out renationalization, which has confronted the greedy foreign-owned energy companies, and presided over a rise in real wages and a fall in unemployment.

    Also, this government imposed a bank tax and implemented other measures to help ordinary people – including a government-decreed cut in energy bills.

    On the other side, there is an opposition alliance that supports further privatization, wants more policies to benefit global “investors,” which is unashamedly pro-banker and pro-globalist and whose main alliance partner when last in government imposed swingeing cuts in public spending, destroyed state-owned companies including national airline Malev, and left millions of ordinary people worse off.

    Now, you'd probably think that the government is question was “socialist’ or “leftist” and the opposition “conservative.” But in fact, it is the other way round. The Hungarian government, which has just been returned to power with around 45 percent of the vote, has undoubtedly done more for ordinary people that the “socialist” opposition did when in power from 2002-10 (and I say this as a lifelong socialist, not as a supporter of Fidesz).

    Hungary shows us that we should beware of “labels” when it comes to elections in the era of neoliberalism and globalization. For sometimes it is “conservative” parties who can – and do – offer ordinary people far more than “socialist” ones, or ones which claim to be on the “left” or “center-left.”

  5. Nina Byzantina ‏@NinaByzantina 3 hrs
    Declaring the #Kharkov People's Republic | В #Харьков'е провозгласили Народную республику : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN_RWJHMVgw … (parts 2, 3 in links).

  6. Marcus Papadopoulos ‏@DrMarcusP Apr 6
    The fallout from the West having supported the Kosovo Liberation Army is that 70% of the sex trade in London is run by Kosovan Albanians.

  7. any cause that needs to lie to sustain itself is a lost cause....
    RT на русском ‏@RT_russian 2h
    Новость о пустых полках в крымских магазинах проиллюстрировали фотографией из Нью-Йорка http://russian.rt.com/article/27046 pic.twitter.com/08C2z73XXD
    News about empty shelves in stores Crimean illustrated with photographs from New York http://russian.rt.com/article/27046 pic.twitter.com/08C2z73XXD

  8. Hello Penny!
    FYI here's an article about the history student books that are being used in the Ukrainaian schools. It is in Russian(and partially Ukrainian, let me know if you need translation or a commentary)


    Ukraininas were being brainwashed for almost 23 years of "independence", the history as it was being taught first in Ukrainian-speaking schools and predominantly in the west of the country and later almost all over Ukraine is full of alternative and controversial info, or utter and complete lies. For instance textbooks for the 5th students imply that Ukrainians are proud descendants of Scythians who occupied the same territory and had the same "ways". Then there is a multitude of legends of the glorious past of the mighty Ukrainians, no evidence to support this is given of course as "all of it was destroyed by the Russians or other intruders such as Polish or Austro-Hungarians but the truth and memory dwells in our hearts". No explanation on why there are many existing Scythian artefacts and no Ukrainian of the later period is given apart form the "occupants destroyed it". Majority of the tales of might and glory are unsubstantiated and supposedly happened from 4 century BC and till the Ancient Kiev times. Then there is a massive section on Cossacks, not the Russian irregular army as the world is used to think of them, but the "true Ukrainians who had Democratic republic of Zaporojskaya setch" way back in time, and who - "do you know, children, that there was a cossack baroque thats totally demolished by now(by the occupants of course) that theatres were very popular in the Cossack Ukraine, and that the Cossacks had and underwater fleet? " No kidding it is what the Ukrainian textbooks say! Cossacks had submarines! Then the large section on battles and wars for independence form everybody(western aggressors are represented by Poland and Austro-Hungary, east by Russia and south by Turkey), battles that were supposedly won. Not to mention that textbooks also claim that Ukrainian Cossacks kicked both Mongols and Napoleon out(chased him out-the way it is written in the textbook) and they never had the Golden horde on their land and so on….Then there's bloody soviet aggressing of the recent times and so on.

    The info I have is not based only on this article, as I have many Ukrainain friends, and it IS true that the history is being bought this way! I have a friend who graduated form the Kiev state university law department, and she said that "it IS true, but soviets re-wrote our glorious history anybody who disagrees is brainwashed!" well the whole world was brainwashed then, only Ukrainians "know the truth as it still dwells in the hearts and the memory will never die"-their usual slogan.

    The Ukraine is shown to the students as a peaceful but mighty country of huts(khata the traditional house with thatched roof) rural, not European nor Russian, with aggressors form the whole circle of enemies are trying to occupy the divine land. The culture of the western part is the only real culture, village values are the only values, imperialism is evil, aggressors are everywhere.

    1. Thanks so much!
      I was just finishing up my post and heading out the door
      My yard is in desperate need of some work
      When I come back in I will have more time for a good look and if I have questions I will leave them for you
      Much appreciated :)

  9. And here is a USSR map showing where ukranian peopled (and other nationalities) were the dominant people of the land.


    Note how ukranians lived much, much wider than the current borders.

    1. Perhaps Ukrainians lived much wider then current borders
      Canadians live outside of the borders of Canada, but, where they live is not Canada.

      This does nothing to clarify the question of demarcated borders
      Not does it change the fact that what is defined as Ukraine today, came largely from land granted by Russia