Tuesday, June 17, 2014

Does the Ukraine occupy Russian Territory? Ukraine attempts one sided demarcation

Recall this previous post? Ukraine has no demarcated borders?  

At the time I wondered, is this correct? Could Ukraine have no internationally recognized demarcated border?  This does indeed look to be correct. Ukraine has NO demarcated border.  
Ukraine is presently, attempting to unilaterally demarcate a border.   
 Russia isn't going to recognize this land grab.

So, Ukraine having no demarcated border is acknowledged by Ukrainian officials!
Which begs the question-  What is the Ukraine? Is it really just a borderland? 
No demarcated borders means Crimea was not part of Ukraine, anyway, since no borders define Ukraine. Therefore Lugansk, should easily be able to claim it's own borders since it isn't officially part of  Ukraine? Because legally or officially there looks to be no Ukraine.
Reminds me of that other not really existing 'nation' of Israel.
No borders there either?
Security And Defense Council Instructs Cabinet To Conduct Unilateral Border Demarcation With Russia (21:04, Monday, June 16, 2014)
The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (NSDC) has instructed the Cabinet of Ministers to conduct unilateral demarcation of the border with Russia, NSDC Secretary Andrii Parubii said at a news briefing.
"Engineering facilities at the Ukrainian-Russian border will be reinforced and unilateral demarcation will be conducted not only where hostilities and the anti-terrorist operation are taking place, but over all its lines," he noted.
Parubii did not specify what facilities will be built along the border, but stressed those would not be ditches only.
Moreover, he could not respond directly whether there would be a wall on the border as it had been proposed by Dnipropetrovsk Regional State Administration Head Ihor Kolomoiskyi.
According to Parubii, the Cabinet of Ministers will develop and finance a plan for building engineering facilities at the expense of the national budget.
 Another source informing us clearly that the Ukraine does not have internationally recognized demarcated borders

Parubiy: Ukraine decides on one-side demarcation of border with Russia

The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine ordered the government to carry an one-side demarcation of the Ukrainian-Russian border in terms of existing threats to national security, said NSDC Secretary Andriy Parubiy.
"The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine was charged to organize the one-side demarcation of the Ukrainian-Russian state border, to provide its proper technical arrangements in accordance with today's threats to the national security," he said after a meeting of the NSDC in Kyiv on late Monday.
NSDC decision takes an effect under the decree of the President of Ukraine.
The little pink blob in the middle was the Ukraine
 With later additions coming from Russian territory and leadership
Stalin (green)
Tzars (yellow)
Kruschev (mauve) obviously Crimea
Lenin (blue)
 The Russian perspective-

 - Moscow Refuses to Recognize Kiev’s Unilateral Border Demarcation – Russian Lawmaker
MOSCOW, June 17 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will not recognize Kiev’s decision on the unilateral demarcation of the border, which would lead to ongoing border disputes, Russian lawmaker Alexei Pushkov said.
"We can assume that Russia will not recognize the unilateral demarcation at least because it is contrary to all norms of the international law," Chairman of the Duma Committee on Foreign Affairs Alexei Pushkov said during a parliamentary session on Tuesday.
"Unilateral demarcation of the border does not exist. In case Kiev does not know this, a mixed commission is always created to decide on demarcation, the two sides are engaged in the process, and it becomes the subject of a separate agreement between the states,” Pushkov said.
The committee chairman said a border drawn by a single side is illegal, unrecognized and has no legal force. "Therefore, unilateral demarcation of the border is a path to ongoing border disputes with Russia," Pushkov further explained.

 “Of course, it means that the Ukrainian authorities are absolutely ignorant. Absence of bilateral demarcation and building fences means causing a serious conflict with Russia, including a military one. Demarcation is a bilateral process. Of course Ukraine can do whatever it wants, but in this case Russia can consider the fence illegal and destroy it,” Shurygin stressed.


  1. "Truth exists; only lies are invented." Yes, but you seem to be doing a very bad job of lying. I suggest carrying out some research by reading a few books written by internationally recognized experts on Ukrainian history instead of the Putinist propaganda and lies that you are attempting to pass as facts.

    "No demarcated borders means Crimea was not part of Ukraine". What an ignorant and foolish statement. Of the thousands of km Ukraine's border's, the borders of Crimea happen to be the one's which are impossible to dispute since Crimea is a peninsula and only has a land border with the Ukrainian mainland. It DOES NOT have a land border with Russia. Therefore, there was never any dispute over Crimea's borders. However, if Ukraine's bordered are not demarcated, neither are Russia's. It can't be that Ukraine's borders are NOT demarcated but Russia's are. Therefore, using the author's skewed logic, Ukraine can make claim to its old territory of Moscow and half of European Russia since these lands were part of Kievan Rus and Ukraine is the successor state of Kievan Rus with its capital in Kiev. Kiev has been the capital of Ukrainians since Kievan Rus and Moscow was founded by Kievan prince - Yuri Dolgoruki - who is buried in Kiev.
    However, as in most of what is written in this blurb, the author is wrong about Ukraine's borders (by the way, your map of Ukraine is simply a lie and has no basis in historical fact, furthermore, if you look at a map of Russia in 1654, you'll notice it being much, MUCH smaller than it is now. So, does this mean that Russia should give all of these lands back? I hope you see your ignorance!). Ukraine's border have been recognised by Russia itself numerous times including in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. Therefore, before writing lies and garbage, try to educate yourself first. It will help you understand the truth.

    1. Next time your trash talk won't get through here.

      "the author is wrong about Ukraine's borders"
      Which author?

      ........"instead of the Putinist propaganda"

      I quoted two Ukrainian news sources who were both quoting the Ukrainian NSDC Secretary. How on earth is that Putinist propaganda? Seriously.

      The first link in this article is from Ukrainian news


      "The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (NSDC) has instructed the Cabinet of Ministers to conduct unilateral demarcation of the border with Russia, NSDC Secretary Andrii Parubii said at a news briefing"

      The second source is also Ukrianian- Interfax Ukraine

      "The Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine was charged to organize the one-side demarcation of the Ukrainian-Russian state border, to provide its proper technical arrangements in accordance with today's threats to the national security," he said after a meeting of the NSDC in Kyiv on late Monday

      NSDC decision takes an effect under the decree of the President of Ukraine"

      So, if you have a problem or take issue with what this individual has said, you really should take your case to Kiev. Pretty sure you can since you are right there.

      Clearly the Kiev authorities are calling it a one sided demarcation because it is a one sided demarcation- no propaganda of any sort- straight quoting from the horse's mouth

      You did not bother to check the source material because you have an entirely different agenda
      Your tactics are apparent- name calling, "lying" "garbage"
      implying I am writing disinfo- Well if Ukrainian authorities are spreading disinfo then you really should take it up with them, but, not me.
      I am merely quoting the talking heads of the day

      "Educate yourself" way ahead of ya, way ahead of ya-

      Ad Hominem, Launch Personal Attacks On Opponents
      When you can't refute factual arguments, kill the messenger. Have fun with character assassination. Attack the arguer and not the argument.

    2. Penny, I would just delete that post of anon. I can't see a single bit of truth posted in that garbage. You just can't fix stupid.

    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    4. hi Paul and Brian

      The person from kiev wrote english like it was his or her first tongue
      very interesting

      And no you can't fix stupid. :))

      corrected- too early in the am and only one cup of coffee

  2. Check out the underhandedness goings on here...


    The owner of the main shareholder in Stroytransgaz (63%), Volga Group investments, is Gennady Timchenko, who is on the U.S. sanctions list of oligarchs close to the Kremlin.

    due to pressure from both the EU and the U.S. (Oresharski made his decision after conversations with three American senators and the U.S. ambassador, who had earlier threatened to impose sanctions on firms cooperating with Stroytransgaz), and the junior coalition partner’s threat that it would leave the government.

    European Parliament adopted an amendment declaring that South Stream was unbeneficial to EU interests

    The choice of Stroytransgaz also caused a stir in Bulgaria, among both the opposition, which demanded resignation of the Oresharski government, and the junior coalition partner, the Movement for Rights and Freedoms.
    Movement for Rights and Freedoms is a youth indoctrination org. based on facism and radical youth ideology. basically more nazis.

    Ongoing legal disputes also work to Moscow’s disadvantage, because it is forced to bear the additional costs.

    no limit to the crap you have to go through just for a basic business deal when it is not profiting the multinationals.

    1. The EU needs southstream.. but then they are big on cutting off their stupid noses to spite their stupid faces
      The US clearly is keeping Europe 'strong and free' NOT
      They are keeping them down, oppressed and under the heel of the US, federal reserve and bankers-

    2. Problem - reaction - solution
      'Energy security' is being pushed as a major problem together with sky-high and rising energy prices. Solution = Fracking.

      The bastards are intent on destroying our water-table and the Corporatocracy will make a killing, out of killing us.

      The only alternatives we are being offered to the noxious Fracking are silly non-solutions such as windmills or the amazing Pavegen that NASA Tech Briefs has been pushing lately. -

      A small step from Pavegen to the Treadmill

  3. FYI
    A controversial photograph has recently gone viral, purporting to show prove a connection between Poland and the mercenaries operating in Eastern Ukraine. Jerzy Dziewulski, the security advisor to former Polish president Aleksander Kwasniewski, is allegedly pictured next to then-acting junta head Aleksander Turchynov near the Slavyansk front lines. UK-based media site LiveLeak published the picture at the beginning of June, and the Polish government has yet to officially respond to it. VR asked Andrew Korybko, journalist and VR's contributing author, for details.
    Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_06_18/West-doesnt-want-to-have-Polands-hands-dirty-with-whats-going-on-in-Ukraines-east-expert-4870/

  4. That was fast.

    Iraq’s Kurds link Kirkuk to own oil pipeline

    Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Jun-18/260542-iraqs-kurds-link-kirkuk-to-own-oil-pipeline.ashx#ixzz351Moalha
    (The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)