Monday, November 19, 2018

Deposing Saudi Arabia's Prince- More Then One Way to Skin A Cat

After yesterday’s report: Foregone Conclusion: CIA says MBS Ordered Khashoggi Assassination & Another Wife Appears. 

 I got thinking about the CIA “concluding” MBS was responsible for the killing of Khashoggi. One can’t help but notice that the CIA is hard selling a concept of tyrannical/dictatorial leadership.  

" the agency’s assessment of the prince as the country’s de facto ruler who oversees even minor affairs in the kingdom"

Rest assured if the CIA/Central Intelligence Agency states that MBS is guilty and a tyrant... this is the foundation for which all future plans concerning Saudi Arabia will built upon.

 This determination, as questionable as it is, indicates very clearly, in my opinion, that the days of MBS ruling in Saudi Arabia are numbered.

 Last night hubby and I were discussing this subject and my husband said... ‘makes you wonder about that earlier attempt on his life’ Referring to the reports of an assassination attempt on Mohamed Bin Salman earlier this year.

Rethinking that incident sure gave me a couple of aha moments!

Let’s go back to May 2018: Media speculates about ‘possible death’ of Saudi crown prince 

Saudi Arabia: Where is bin Salman, Attack at National Guard Facility etc.,

Saudi Arabia was putting out reports stating that Bin Salmon was not dead. These rebuttals came out after the incident at the palace, which resulted in MBS being absent  from the public eye for weeks. The absence raised questions:

"On April 21, heavy gunfire was heard around the royal palace in Riyadh"

"International media on Thursday claimed that Saudi Crown Price Muhammad Bin Salman has gone missing since April 21 attack on the royal palace in Riyadh"

"Questions arose regarding the whereabouts of the crown prince, who usually has a high media profile and is regularly seen meeting fellow leaders and chairing events"

"Saudi authorities have released new video footage of Mohammed bin Salman amid conspiracy theories alleging the crown prince has been dead for more than a month"

At the time of this news I asked three questions:
  • Are we dealing with infighting and power grabbing?
  • Is this related to Yemen?
  • Are these some bigger geo political moves at play?
Clearly bigger geo-political moves are at play.. Relating to all of the above questions
Including new leadership in Saudi Arabia... if it can be had?

Aha moment # 1: External factions working in partnership with internal players

Was the April attack on MBS, internal but aided by external factions?
Much like the attempted assassination of Erdogan?
That was an inside job, with lots and lots of outside support. 

The April attack on MBS? Was it more of the same?
Factions inside Saudi Arabia, allied with outsiders, took their best shot/s at MBS and he survived !  Which would have been a problem... Requiring alternative solutions.

Can’t discount that concept as a possible reality. It’s certainly been done before.  Erdogan survived the assassination attempt and the US/UK/Israel has been gnashing their teeth ever since.

Perhaps this possibility of yet another assassination attempt is the reason MBS is reported to stay on his secure yacht? Bin Salman Stays on His Very Secure Yacht- Serene

Aha # 2: Internal partners strategically located in the Saudi Consulate
When we consider the very real possibility that other nation states can and do have influence in certain Saudi circles. Friends in all the right places. Contacts.  Dual agents and the like.  
We then have to think beyond the idea of those insiders not just being connected to an attempted assassination of MBS. Indeed, we have to also mull over the real possibility that some well placed friends/contacts/agents were operating in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. (This is NOT a stretch of the imagination considering the nature of reality in the world of covert ops and operatives) When Mr Khashoggi entered the consulate, certain connected persons,  took the opportunity to ‘take him out’ in order to frame MBS.

This could have been a dual purpose hit as well. Since Khashoggi, who was obviously a CIA asset, could have become a liability.

*Recall the early news reports claiming the US had advance knowledge regarding Saudi plots against Khashoggi : Intercepted communications- Saudi’s are said to Have Lain in Wait for Khashoggi

“Before Khashoggi’s disappearance, U.S. intelligence intercepted communications of Saudi officials discussing a plan to capture him, according to a person familiar with the information. The Saudis wanted to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and lay hands on him there, this person said”
Perhaps US officials were privy to advance knowledge of an action they might just have been involved in? Perhaps the person/s who sent the 'kill team' to Turkey were the same person/s who sent a "kill team" to Mohammed Bin Salmon's palace in April?

There is more then one way to skin a cat just as there is  more then one way to overthrow a leader.


  1. Hi Penny: That mysterious "event" involving gunfire at the SA palace did cross my mind more than once since the Khashoggi affair started. If today's crop of professional "journalists" didn't have the memories of fleas...perhaps they might look into whether there's any gonnection between the two.

    1. Hey GC:

      Journalists have flea like memories for the very reason of never having to provide context or hindsight to anything at all- ever.

      Considering all that has gone on- it seems quite sensible that the palace incident is part of the plan to dethrone the prince.
      If at first you don't succeed..........

  2. All Your thoughts, Penny, are absolutely logical. Bur let's look not only at possible enemies of MbS, but also at himself:
    We must not forget, that MbS threw a lot of top Saudi people into prison, it is said that some were had been tortured. He 'confiscated' billions of Dollars from them - without any due court procedures!

    So there are a lot of people of influence (in Saudi Arabia) who must be MbS fierce enemies.
    Also MbS killed the obvious CIA asset: Khashoggi. MbS never even gave that a thought!

    But there is also another perspective to look at a future putsch in Saudi Arabia. It is the personality of MbS himself. It simply calls for his liquidation/termination.

    If a murder happens (and I think that MbS will be dead soon) very often the reason is not only the wickedness/ruthlessness of the perpetrators (shown by the murders of Jack and Robert Kennedy, of M. L. King and so on) but also the weakness - greed, addiction (drugs, sex) stupidity, own ruthlessness - of the victim.

    Here the weaknesses of MbS:
    1. Even stupid Trump and stupid Erdogan, if they had been in the position of MbS a year ago, wouldn't have acted like MbS. Yes, also Erdogan threw a lot (thousands!) of journalist, of military people, of people fro the Turkish administration into prison. And I believe, that Erdogan will some day have to pay for it, because you don't do it that way.
    But Erdogan didn't cut out due legal process. The fact that MbS didn't at all care about the
    legal process makes his own doing illegal - and that makes him enormous vulnerable. Also it shows his stupidity: Because of course these billions of money by these members of the most powerful families in Saudi Arabia where purchased by corruption. But MbS doesn't see that court sessions - possibly over years - about these cases of corruption would win him a lot of sympathy by the Saudi population. MbS is to stupid to see that these court procedures, discussed day by day in the Saudi media, would unite the Saudi citizens - or may be more important -the leaders of the tribes behind him. Even Stalin knew that often a very obvious show trial it much more advantageous then an easy done liquidation of the opponent.

    2. I have no doubts that the murder of Khashoggi was ordered by MbS himself. An action like this simply fits his mentality and his stupidity.

    3.) MbS seems to be a cocaine addict. To this see Craig Murray analysis: .
    Interesting is this video also, because when MbS mentions the King' name the crowd below applauds (a pity, no camera swing into the crowd below then). Then MbS mentions himself and the listeners below applaud again. And the applaud seems to be exactly the same as before (the King's name). But when MbS had mentioned himself the camera now swings down to the listeners: And you can see that only some applaud - and a lot do not. I believe that Saudi TV had copied the applaud for the King and copied it to where the original applaud for MbS was - to make it exactly the same.


  3. How to make sure the MBS guard, specifically Saud al-Qahtani, got to Istanbul, or the appearance of such. Or is this a case of the Iran picture release by the Malaysia air?

    2nd wife: Egypt?
    Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Nayef dies - BBC News 16Jun12
    Egypt's ex-spy chief Omar Suleiman dies in United States 19Jul12

    Saudi Arabia to restart Egypt oil shipments - 16mar17
    Egypt court overturns block on islands transfer to Saudi Arabia | Reuters 2Apr17

    Egypt backs KSA against political exploitation of Khashoggi's case 15Oct18
    Foreign ministry follows up probe into murder of Egyptian in Saudi Arabia

    Was the Egyptian out jogging?
    American Teacher Is Killed While Jogging In Benghazi, Libya

    Flashback to 2011
    UPDATE 1-Saudi king expresses support for Mubarak

    Flashback 2012
    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton meets Egypt's Muslim
    Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Nayef dies - BBC News 16Jun12
    Egypt's ex-spy chief Omar Suleiman dies in United States 19Jul12

    Flashback 2014
    Egypt blasts Turkish leader Erdogan after U.N. speech -

    2011 Iran assassination plot - Wikipedia

    Saudi foreign minister pledges full probe into Khashoggi killing 22oct18

    "Only one important thing has happened in the last three days, and that is that nothing has happened"

    1. anonymous: the new wife is interesting. I did a post including that information and it does appear to me to be more of a case of spy agency vs spy agency.

      Someone is trying to discredit the version that's been presented all along. Ya know throw mud on it?

      Saudi King supported Mubarek? That's interesting.
      So maybe they don't like the Egyptian leadership present day? The same Egyptian leadership that played a role in the coup plot against Turkey's Erdogan?

      Saud al-Qahtani.. what's his significance in all this?
      In your opinion

      He's one of 17 Saudis the Treasury department has sanctioned..

      "That measure followed sanctions imposed by the Treasury Department on 17 Saudis who Secretary Steven Mnuchin said “targeted and brutally killed a journalist who resided and worked in the United States.”
      "The most senior person sanctioned was Saud al-Qahtani, a former top aide to the crown prince"

    2. Murder of Giulio Regeni - Wikipedia

    3. Apparently Saudi Intel forgot to download Telegram
      Russia bans Telegram encrypted messaging app - CNET

      or the lessons of Bylock

      Opted for Skype
      Russia bans Telegram encrypted messaging app - CNET

      probably an oversight

  4. Hi J:

    I recall MBS tossing certain persons to the curb in Saudi Arabia-

    covered here:

    Including the arrest of the chief of security services-

    "Prince Abdulla had been removed from his post as chief of a major security service just hours before the arrests"

    In June of 2017- The US and Israel were crowing about how great bin salman was for both those nations.

    Yet several months later MBS is reshaping the entire leadership? What changed? From June to November of 2017.
    That would make bin salman take such drastic actions?

    I suspect now that MBS was clearly getting ahead of some actions, probably against him, that were coming down the line.. With limited success.

    So yah people of influence were put out.. but were they already working towards changing the leadership, making MBS's actions, possible reactions to plots against his leadership that came to his attention?

    I saw the claims on line about MBS using cocaine..
    Don't know how much of a factor this may or may not actually be. I suspect like all rich, self entitled persons, there is much substance abuse going on.
    Alchohol, drugs, then there is surely abuse of those these elitists see as beneath them..

    We're not to far away in our views except I'm not entirely sure MBS had Khashoggi killed. I don't think he was enough of a threat or actually even a threat and how did he benefit?

    It doesn't appear he has benefited ..
    It's more plausible to me that someone else had Khashoggi killed to frame MBS.

    Hope that makes sense?

    1. Hi, Penny!
      Yes, Penny we are not at all "far away in our views"!
      First of all to read Your article was a pleasure and it kept me a bit up-to-date, cause I didn't come across this Khashoggi thing since some of Your articles two(?) weeks ago.

      I believe MbS ordered the murder of Khashoggi. And your argument against that: "I don't think he was enough of a threat or actually even a threat and how did he benefit?" has something for Your case.
      But than again here in Europe we have already a lot of experience by now with these refugees coming from Middle East, Afghanistan and Africa. If they feel insulted they pull out their knife and wound or even kill you.
      And this has nothing to do with Islam, as we hear so often. Also Alavites, Christians, Atheists coming from there are so.
      Don't forget: It is only 1 ½ century ago that it was the same in Europe. If a man insulted someone - or he thought you did - the other man demanded a "duel". Also in North America we had all these "show-downs" (with guns - while in Europe often also with sabre). How good these times are over! Yes, I'd like the idea of taking my glove (gauntlet) and slip-slap one or the other face. But Nowadays I only would get sued - but in those days either I or the other one would be dead the next day (also: why did they duel each other so early in the morning? I mean 6 o clock is not even breakfast time!). Also a few centuries ago religion in Europe was like nowadays religion in Middle East, Africa, South Asia. Catholics had there "Inquisition", Luther was a vivid advocate of "burning witches". Calvin burned several critics (who were also "good Christians") at the stake. In the 18th century Zaress Catharine "the Great" came to know a noble lady had gossiped about her in a negative way. So she ordered that Lady to be put on a public place where her tongue was cut off and she was banned for life to east Siberia.

      And I consider MbS to be even more revengeful than Catharine "the Great" or Your North American Cowboys (the "Gauchos" in the south were probably not better). With people like MbS (or the refugees from Arabia) there is no "threat" or a "benefit" necessary to kill someone.
      Also the way Khashoggi was killed (more or less tortures to death), shows that there was pure hate at work. Also that the murder was committed exactly by the personal security guys of MbS himself (who could later tell MbS every detail of the killing and the suffering of the victim) shows that it was MbS, who only wanted to cool his hate. No other Saudi person who had wanted to kill Khashoggi had used the personal security personal of MbS to do that!