Breaking News- Kiev claims Sukhoi's downed by Russia!

UPDATED! SCROLL DOWN!

Hot on the heels of the US admission of zero evidence

The US backs off it's false flag! "No direct link to Russia in downing of MH17

 Kiev this morning (EST) claimed two Sukhois were shot down

Two Ukraine Sukhois downed? Ukrainian Mop up or Seperatist take down? 

Early stories concerning the Sukhois are linked in that post

 Including this strange admission?

"Ukraine’s defense ministry reported Wednesday that two Ukrainian fighter jets had been shot down in eastern Ukraine. The White House has not confirmed the attacks."

And my comment?  Does Ukraine need White house confirmation to make their claims real?

Now, yet another twist in this psyop!
Chicago Tribune 

KIEV—

Ukraine's Security Council said on Wednesday preliminary information indicated that missiles which brought down two government fighter jets over eastern Ukraine were fired from Russia.

"Two of our jets were hit at an altitude of 5,200 meters. According to preliminary information, the missiles were launched from the territory of the Russian Federation," the council said in a statement

A far lower altitude then MH-17 which was NOT shot down by separatists. No even accidentally
Lie, lie and lie again.

A spokesman for Ukraine's military operations said the planes were downed near Savur Mogila, a burial mound in the Shaktersky region where a memorial marks ambushes by the Soviet army on occupying Nazis during World War II.

"They were downed not by terrorists," said Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the National Security and Defense Council, using the government's term for the separatists.

There was no immediate response from Russian officials.

 As reported in the earlier post- Is it true? Is it more fabrications?

 Igor Strelkov, who is now in charge of the rebel ranks in the eastern city of Donetsk, said the separatists had brought down one plane and that the pilot had ejected. He gave no further details.

Air India flight was 90 seconds behind MH-17?

MUMBAI: The ministry of civil aviation's claim that there was no Air India flight near the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777.

Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing". This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another.

 Soon after the tragedy, the media picked up data from flightradar24, a live flight tracker website which showed the AI aircraft in the vicinity. But the next day, on Friday, the civil aviation ministry issued a statement that "there was no Air India flight near the ill-fated Malaysian plane at the time of the incident".

Also h/t  No More MythsJuly 23, 2014 at 9:02 AM

Slightly off topic but relevant:

Obama orders Pentagon advisers to Ukraine to fend off Putin-backed rebels
U.S. to help Kiev bolster military as pressure mounts on Vladimir Putin
Tuesday, July 22, 2014

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/22/pentagon-team-dispatched-to-ukraine-amid-crisis-wi/

This doesn't bode well.

It definitely appears the US is upping the ante!

 Within the next few weeks, a group of Defense Department representatives who specialize in strategy and policy will head to Kiev to evaluate specific programs that the United States may want to help bolster, said Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman.

 Their objective is to work with Ukrainians to “shape and establish an enduring program for future U.S. efforts to support the Ukrainian military through subject-matter expert teams and long-term advisers,” he said.

 H/T anonymous commenter- Seven Allies Establish NATO's Strategic Communications Center

Two Ukraine Sukhois downed? Ukrainian Mop up or Seperatist take down?

Yesterday, as noted in the previous post, the US admitted they had no evidence supporting all the claims they have been making these past days.

The US backs off it's false flag! "No direct link to Russia in downing of MH17

The news, of having no evidence, came out late in the day. Guaranteeing a reduced media audience reach.
That acknowledgement will be swept under the rug in light of what is breaking as this time.
So, here we are yet again. Almost a week to the day that the MH-17 fell from the sky and the subsequent officially spun, completely unsubstantiated, conspiracy theory narrative fell apart

We are getting this news.

Here

 Two Ukrainian military fighter jets have been shot down in the east, according to the country's Defence Ministry.

The Sukhoi-25 fighters were shot down over an area called Savur Mogila.

Defence Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky said the planes might have been carrying two crew members each.

Ukraine defence ministry spokesman says two fighters were shot down and each plane MIGHT have been carrying two crew members? Don’t they know?

I find this beyond odd, considering Russia identified A Sukhoi 25 as the plane flying near MH-17?
Are the Ukies getting rid of evidence? Planes and pilots involved in the MH-17 incident?
A question that has to be considered?

Here

White house has NOT confirmed attacks?  Does Ukraine need White house confirmation to make their claims real?

"Ukraine’s defense ministry reported Wednesday that two Ukrainian fighter jets had been shot down in eastern Ukraine. The White House has not confirmed the attacks."

CBC

Pro-Russian rebels have shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets, a spokesman for Ukraine's military operations said today.

Ukraine says....

The spokesman said the two Sukhoi-25 fighters were downed around 1:30 p.m. local time near Savur Mogila in Eastern Ukraine.

Igor Strelkov, who is now in charge of the rebel ranks in the eastern city of Donetsk, said the separatists had brought down one plane and that the pilot had ejected. He gave no further details.

No details were known about the pilots, but Ukrainian defence officials said the planes may have been carrying up to two crew members each

Can anyone confirm if Strelkov or anyone affiliated with the antifascists actually made this statement?
This news is very short on details....

UPDATE: What can be learned from MH17’s ‘black boxes’?
The two data-collecting devices can paint a picture nearly impossible to piece together through other means.

 Nearly six days after the attack that brought down Malaysia Air Flight MH17, the plane’s nearly 20-year-old pair of “black boxes” have been delivered to Malaysian authorities. The handover was the result of an agreement negotiated between Ukrainian separatist leader Alexander Borodai and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak. Now the work begins to free the boxes’ flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders to reveal what they know.

Nearly 20 year old pair of black boxes? I read through this article and take away a perception of the main stream media prepping to down play the findings or even go so far as claim the boxes were tampered with by the anti-fascist groups .

Flight 17’s “loaf” modules, as the black boxes are sometimes described in the aviation business, are designed to withstand a tremendous 3,400 Gs worth of impact.

And as invulnerable as they may appear, such black boxes aren’t immune to tampering. If the units are correctly hooked up to a power source and allowed to run, the data on them can be rather easily overwritten in the same way that you might record over a VHS tape.

Seeds being sown.... I find it implausible with all the people on the ground around the crash site that anyone would be able to tamper with the boxes. MSM always planting seeds of deception

The US backs off it's false flag! "No direct link to Russia in downing of MH17

No direct link to Russia in downing of Flight MH17: U.S. officials

 The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine,(yet another claim made by the US that has never been proven)  the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia"

I am going to ignore all the wild speculation these mouthpieces engaged in and cut to the chase!
In big bold lettering because I want this easily readable to all

"the officials said they did not know who fired the missile" 

"In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're not even 100 per cent sure of a nationality" 

 "The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been able to authenticate all of it"

 Have they authenticated any of it?

 For example, they cited a video of a missile launcher said to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.

But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that the video was exactly what it purported to be.

 The missile launcher that US intelligence had claimed crossed the Russian border was shown in the video presentation by Russia

If the US is acknowledging they have no evidence of a SAM being fired. The question that begs asking is....
Did the Ukrainian military plane, that was mysteriously flying in the vicinity of MH-17, fire at the passenger plane bringing it down?

*Because what this admission all boils down to is that nothing the US has previously claimed as fact can be verified as truth, fact or even correct!*

And finally, from the linked news article. Last paragraph!

"On Monday, President Barack Obama said (directly quoted)  the Malaysia Airlines plane "was shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine." He also said Russia has both trained the separatists and "armed them with military equipment and weapons, including anti-aircraft weapons."

Obama LIED.  He LIED.  Many people died for these lies.

I will embed the Russian presentation below. I will also include one from the US representative.

 Russian MOD presentation





US State Department Presentation

FBI: Framing Muslims as “terrorists” to justify certain political agendas

Let's call this type of action exactly what it is. It is state sponsored terrorism, perpetrated by the state against all of it's own citizens! Period!

This 'news' should come as no surprise to anyone who reads here. Or anyone who is at all in tune with reality? As opposed to being a spoon fed media manipulated dupe?

FBI: Framing Muslims as “terrorists” to justify certain political agendas

Not limited to but including these agendas:

1.Depriving all citizens of their innate human rights

2.Traumatizing citizens with state sponsored acts of tyranny the news of such occurences quickly spread  like any other venereal disease via the presstitutes

3. Justifying bloated security budgets

4. Eavesdropping on your private lives

5. Snooping through finances

6. Impeding your right to travel freely

I am sure the readers can think of more rights being trampled because of the terrorism meme.

A study  co-published by Human Rights Watch and the Columbia Law School Human Rights Institute. (I am no fan of HRW- they do the bare minimum necessary to present themselves as a human rights org- So, it was likely a good thing that another group was involved)

Illusion of Justice

Illusion of Justice describes a number of prosecutions that implemented “radicalization” during a sting operation. In each of the selected cases below, a government agent or informant identified a young man who expressed a controversial political or religious opinion, and implemented a sting operation based on those opinions. In no case was there an identified nexus to suspected criminal conduct.

In one case in 2009, the subject of an HBO documentary premiering this week, an FBI informant met James Cromitie, a 45 year-old African-American man, outside a mosque in Newburgh, New York. The informant, under the instruction of his FBI handler, probed Cromitie with questions about jihad and his opinions on world politics. Having heard his target’s controversial opinions, the informant continued to push, eventually offering Cromitie $250,000 to participate in a fake attack. After losing his job at Walmart, Cromitie accepted the offer.

In a 2012 case from Chicago, an FBI undercover agent began targeting Adel Daoud in an online chat room shortly after his 18th birthday. He was not a member of a terror cell, or seeking one out. Still, Daoud had questions that he posed online about Islam and jihad. The undercover online agent answered his questions, offering responses that strung Daoud along into a violent plot which he and the agent planned together. Daoud was arrested in front of a bar in downtown Chicago, having attempted to detonate a jeep full of false explosives that he drove downtown. The FBI provided Daoud with the jeep, fake explosives, and driving directions.

And in a 2004 case in New York City, a government informant targeted Matin Siraj, a Muslim teen with documented mental health problems. The informant, who met Siraj through his regular surveillance of a Bay Ridge mosque and bookstore, began by speaking with the young man about politics, and eventually showed Siraj pictures of abuse at Abu Ghraib. “There were articles and photos of children mangled or decapitated or burnt alive,” Siraj wrote to me. Over the course of a year, the informant developed a fatherly relationship with Siraj, as they developed a plot together to attack the 34th Street Herald Square subway station. Siraj never agreed to finally execute the plot, defaulting to a lookout position. He told the informant, “I have to, you know, ask my mom’s permission.”

US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion

And here-  Government agents 'directly involved' in most high-profile US terror plots.

MH-17 changed course over Poland- Why? How could MH370 have been lost?

A couple of images that really got me wondering?
And another question that is really bugging me?
It looks to me the course change that sent MH-17 over a war zone took place in Poland?
Why? We know Poland is embedded with NATO...
Had this course change not taken place in Poland. MH17 would not have been in position for a take down
So, what took place over Poland that would cause MH-17 to change course

First image BBC

Second image

It's very, very, very clear that MH-17 changed course in Poland. Why?

Does NATO have something to do with this?

BRUSSELS, July 18. /ITAR-TASS/. A total of two jets of the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) were on combat duty in the airspace over Romania and Poland Thursday at the moment the Boeing 777 jet of the Malaysian Airlines crashed in highly controversial circumstances in eastern Ukraine, a NATO source told ITAR-TASS.

One last question. And it's a big one! 

If the US can present such a specific narrative to the international audience concerning MH17, why, oh why can they not tell us all what happened to MH37/0? How could they have completely lost that MH37/0?
 I mean completely? No satellite. No nothing. That is just NOT copasetic.

Unless....  the US wanted to lose MH37?


One last item- Call it mass manipulation via main stream media

"Russia airs conspiracy theories over downed airline"

If it wasn't such a pathetic headline, it might be funny? Or not. But, really it's just pathetic.
Since all we have had is one state sanctioned 'conspiracy theory' from the moment this plane came down.
Originating in Kiev and bolstered by the US to serve their mutual political agenda

Gazan to Netanyahu- Thanks monster, my life is ruined. MH17 spin/sanctions/BRICS bank

No, post title is not a real headline. It's fictional. Like most mainstream media content 
But, it could be very real? When applied to Mr Putin, of course

This is a rambling post.... 
You may not think so, but, all these subject are intertwined
Gaza, MH17, Sanctions, BRICS, spin and perception management so let's get started

Seen this news today?

In a grief-stricken open letter that went viral after being posted on social media sites, he signed off as "Hans de Borst – whose life is ruined".

In my opinion. And this may be controversial. No grief stricken father or mother would post such a letter on social media. I couldn't imagine it. From the perspective of a parent. Grieving, being so intensely personal.

At a time of grief, there is nothing more important to anyone then having real humans, in the flesh, close to you. Speaking from personal experience. It is the embracing of loved ones- the reconnection with memories- long forgotten or recent, the sharing of experiences, which makes the loss both more poignant and yet gives us more to cherish.

If this is a legit letter, which I doubt, then humanity is more f'd up then I could ever have imagined.

 Gaza/Israel

Couldn't help but notice today the death toll thanks to Israeli brutality has reached 509 dead Gazans- Mostly women and children. As Israel targets civilians.

Israel intensifies Gaza assault, death toll hits 509

509 dead in Gaza- 

Following the deadliest day in Gaza in more than five years. in which at least 140 Palestinians were killed, medics pulled another 45 bodies from the rubble early Monday, emergency services spokesman Ashraf al-Qudra said.
And 15 more Palestinians were killed in a series of strikes across Gaza, one of which hit a house in the southern city of Rafah, killing seven children and two adults, Qudra said.

- No headlines screaming "Netanyahu bring me my children back"?
 - No, bereaved father writing an open letter on social media saying to Netanyahu "Many thanks, monster, my life is ruined" No social media letter, going viral, conveniently promoting, the very agenda of demonization that NATO media has been pushing for quite some time now. How curious? How coincidental?
The very same NATO media  that practices & publishes endless excuse making for and by Israel.
509 dead Palestinian civilians are apparently unworthy when compared to a false flag operation that resulted in the deaths of an indeterminate number of victims.  

We know who killed the Palestinians, with certainty. Israeli's military and it's leadership. And we know the civilians were targeted employing maximum brutality while Israel enjoys the impunity of the international community and the mainstream media 

 Impunity means "exemption from punishment or loss or escape from fines".^[1] In the international law of human rights, it refers to the failure to bring perpetrators of human rights violations to justice and, as such, itself constitutes a denial of the victims' right to justice and redress.

 While MH17 is little more then an exercise in state sanctioned conspiracy theory spun through a media that is incessantly pushing a war agenda!

MH-17 

Has anyone noticed that the body tally recovered is vastly shy of the total claimed deceased?

I see figures of 192 bodies being recovered.- Quite a bit shy of the total claimed to be on the plane.
Which was reported at 295. 
 
 Digression- In a previous post, in the comment section, we were discussing the prevalence of the number 7 in this incident. Immediate casualty total 295.  2+9+5=16.  1+6= 7
Strange?

So, we are about 100 bodies shy of the original count. Perhaps they won't recover every body? Or be able to account for everyone on board?  But, I would expect the difference to be much less then 100 plus bodies.
Of course more time is needed for recovery..... so hopefully the gap will be filled.
But still......
 MH-17 Cui Bono?

Recall last week I mentioned that the US took a go it alone attitude towards sanctions when the EU declined to follow the dictates of  US foreign policy:

Wednesday July 16/14 - The Big Cheese stands alone- US expands sanctions against Russia- Unilaterally A post that included the information about the BRICS forming an alternative to the US dominated banking system 

This move comes hot on the heels of this BRICS bank being set up

- Leaders of the BRICS emerging market nations launched a $100 billion development bank and a currency reserve pool on Tuesday in their first concrete step toward reshaping the Western-dominated international financial system.

 What a difference a downed airliner makes?
Europe's wake up call?!  MH-17: Obama gains on Putin?

 "We are trying to encourage our European friends to realise this is a wake-up call," Mr Kerry said on Fox News Sunday, invoking a phrase used last week by Mr Obama.

 A wake up call from who? Who wanted Europe to enact harsher sanctions?

Britain and other European countries must not view the crisis through the "prism" of their national interests, the Deputy Prime Minister says

If these nations should not view the 'crisis' through the 'prism' of their national interests, exactly whose 'prism' should they be viewing the crisis through? The US prism? Because it was the US that has and is pushing the EU into a sanctions regime these nations cannot afford to undertake.
And what crisis is being referenced. Of course MH-17.

 The chancellor said Russia’s disregard for international borders and role in downing flight MH17 poses a risk to the economy that makes sanctions a necessary price to stop him.

There is zero proof to date that Russia had anything to do with the downing of this flight. None. Zero. Zilch.

And still the biggest beneficiary of the downing of MH-17 is US, Israel, NATO.
Cui Bono? I ask, who benefits?!

BRICS Bank

 Here

The marked disparity between the five economies in terms of economic structure, political institutions, and even demographic profiles poses significant constraints for the launch of the [development bank]. However, the fact that these differences have been overcome suggests this is a case in which foreign policy interests trump economics. It is worth noting that the creation of the bank takes place in a context of growing global political confrontation between China, Russia, and the United States, and the reluctance of Japan and the US to dilute their leading roles in existing supranational bodies.

The Brics development bank can release Africa from World Bank tyranny

The bank will rival the US- and European-led World Bank and its private lending affiliate, the International Finance Corporation, which have dominated development finance since the second world war. The Brics bank is positioned as a financial institution that will provide developing countries with alternative funding minus the punishing strings attached to World Bank lending, which strip recipient countries of the power to make their own policies.

Hmmmmm..... can't have that?!

Israel's brutal Gaza Invasion as all attention is turned to the MH-17 false flag

Info I had saved this morning, but, am just getting around to now. Apologies.
False flag- for those who do not know?

False flag (or black flag) describes covert military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them

If you are at all unfamiliar with the MH-17 saga???

Start here:Breaking! Malaysian Passenger Plane crashed (shotdown) in Eastern Ukraine
Next stop:  MH-17: An exercise in foregone conclusions?

Then, more information directly below my brief but relevant digression! First, let me point out how convenient this is for Israel, as they launch a ground invasion into Gaza, that the world concerns itself with the downing of an airliner. While all eyes are averted, Israel will surely engage in a grotesque action that which will undoubtedly include large scale civilian slaughter. 
My oh my, where is Obama's concern for the civilians of Palestine?  Oh yah, Mr Nobel peace prize, doesn't have any real concern for civilians anywhere

"Yes, less then two weeks after he became President, he was nominated for this esteemed prize! Wow, he really must be an over acheiver, a mover and a shaker, or something like that?

How is it possible that Obama is nominated and wins a Nobel Peace Prize, when he only became President, just two weeks before the nomination deadline"

Obama's peace prize was part of a perception management hard sell, twisted campaign to suck the gullible ones into 'believing' this man was about 'hope and change'. He wasn't then and isn't now. He is a monster.

*Israel launches large-scale ground invasion of Gaza Strip

A plan Israel has had for some time now .....

This is not a war of equivalency. And has nothing to do with a few rockets. Rockets that have done virtually nothing when compared to the Israeli onslaught and perverted enjoyment of the slaughter by brainwashed, indoctrinated Israeli's.

Who are the nazi's now

3-Sderot Cinema- Israeli's enjoying the mass killings of Palestinians

2-IDF's Gaza assault is to control Palestinians Gas. And so much more

1-Israeli ground operation "unintended escalation" with Syria & Hezbollah?

Cui Bono? From the plane shoot down? Israel, the US and NATO

Obama blathering about the death of innocents- Not much about Gaza, of course

 

Transcript

Highlighting something I found interesting and odd when considering the  reason for this speech?

Q: Tougher sanctions in Europe, will you push for --

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I think that this certainly will be a wake-up call for Europe and the world that there are consequences to an escalating conflict in eastern Ukraine, that it is not going to be localized, it is not going to be contained.

Tougher sanctions in Europe- Hmmmm..... Cui Bono? The US and Kiev.

Recall?  The Big Cheese stands alone- US expands sanctions against Russia- Unilaterally

The US stood alone in expanding sanctions. But, now.....??? 
 Don't forget the BRICS nations creating their own development bank, just this week! A direct challenge to the US dominated western banking system
Two beneficiaries to the shootdown? Kiev and Washington?

Anomalies? -We got'em!

Flight MH-17 veered 300 miles off typical (usual, every other day)  course- WHY?

The crashed MH17 flight took a route 300 miles to the north of its usual path, an aviation expert has said.

Robert Mark, a commercial pilot who edits Aviation International News Safety magazine, said that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur normally travelled along a route significantly further south than the plane which crashed.

Malaysia Airlines has insisted its plane travelled on an "approved route" used by many other carriers.

But Mr Mark said: "I can only tell you as a commercial pilot myself that if we had been routed that way, with what's been going on in the Ukraine and the Russian border over the last few weeks and months, I would never have accepted that route.

"I went into the FlightAware system, which we all use these days to see where airplanes started and where they tracked, and I looked back at the last two weeks' worth of MH17 flights, which was this one.
"And the flight today tracked very, very much further north into the Ukraine than the other previous flights did ... there were MH17 versions that were 300 miles south of where this one was."

 Records of recent MH17 flights on the FlightAware appear to bear out Mr Mark's claim, with earlier flights significantly further south than the flight that crashed.

Mr Mark’s intervention came amid mounting questions over why passenger jets were flying over the war zone three months after pilots were warned to avoid it.

Aviation safety authorities in America and Europe warned pilots in April about potential risks flying in or near Ukraine airspace.

I mentioned that very fact in yesterday's post! Breaking! Malaysian Passenger Plane crashed (shotdown) in Eastern Ukraine  Again, why did MH17 choose to fly 300 miles to the north, on this very day, over a war zone that all pilots were warned not to fly in or near as early as April of this year?

* Why when MH17 had flown 300 miles to the south, did it fly 300 miles to the north, in a war zone, on the day it was shot down? 

But, that's not all!  

As if the two aformentioned issues are not highly suspect. Not only did MH-17 fly 300 miles to the north,through a war zone, something it had NOT done for the two weeks prior..  Apparently, MH-17 was directed/ordered to fly lower then one would expect over a war zone? Why did all those strange occurrences just so happen to take occur on this very day? It's almost as if this was entirely orchestrated for the shootdown to take place?

MH-17 directed to fly lower then normal

13:07 GMT:

Ukraine’s traffic controllers ordered the Boeing-777 to lower by 500 meters when the aircraft entered Ukrainian airspace, says a statement on the Malaysia Airlines official website.

“MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft (10,660 meters) throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude. However, an aircraft’s altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft (10,058 meters).”

 Anomalies? We definitely got'em!

 What do you suppose the odds are that one airline would loose two planes in a matter of months?

Mr Gleave said: "It's a terrible tragedy to lose one airliner, but to lose two is almost unthinkable." 

 Almost unthinkable. I don't know, why 9/11 comes to mind? When the 'unthinkable' happened in just one day? 3 steel buildings collapse from fire. Never before and never since. Unthinkable!

New Scientist- What was this plane doing over a war zone?

 Who in the region has weapons capable of reaching such altitudes with high accuracy?
The Ukrainian Air Force's Buk surface-to-air missile system – developed under the Soviet Union and Russian Federation – is designed to engage cruise missiles, smart bombs, aircraft and drones at altitudes up to 15 kilometres. It uses radar to home in on a target and is highly accurate.

The pro-Russian separatists say that they have no such weapon and only have shoulder-launched heat-seeking missiles fired from a MANPAD, short for a man-portable air defence system. These can only reach up to 4000 metres.

 Have other aircraft been shot down during the conflict in Ukraine?

On 14 June, pro-Russian separatists used a MANPAD system to shoot down a Ukrainian Air Force Ilyushin-76 military transport at Luhansk airport in Ukraine, killing all 49 people on board. On 13 July in Snezhny, in the Donetsk region, another insurgent MANPAD brought down a Ukrainian military helicopter, an Mi-24. And on 16 July the Ukrainian government says one of its SU-25 ground attack fighter planes was downed over Ukrainian territory.

 On 15 July, the notice was updated to include information on several airports being closed throughout Ukraine, including one in Donetsk, near where MH17 went down. Airspace in that area was also closed up to an altitude of 9754 metres, according to air traffic control organisation Eurocontrol. MH17 was flying just above that, in open airspace, when it was hit.

But, we already know airlines and pilots were told to not use airspace over Ukraine. At any altitude.

Cui Bono? Israel. Kiev's fascists. The US.

Non beneficiaries? Europe. Russia. The anti-fascist/separatist movement.