Before going on with this post I want to say Carol deDelley I am sorry for your loss.
When I read this article I could feel your pain, I could actually visualize you , a mother, saying the words "Don't say that" repeatedly, as if by not having to hear the words being spoken you could hope, for a moment, it was not true. But, also knowing it didn't matter if you listened or covered your ears, it wouldn't change the fact that your son was gone.
Myself, I do not know how you or the rest of the family could bear this?
I don't think anything I could write here will make you feel an happier or alleviate your pain.
But, you are right to ask questions, and to keep asking until you and your family feel satisfied that you've gotten what you need from the answers to have some semblance of peace.
What I want you to know is, your not alone in asking these questions. Myself and others here have posed many of the same questions.
So if you don't mind Mrs deDelley, I am going to quote your questions and sadly pile in with more.
In yesterdays news you voiced concerns regarding the manner in which the RCMP handled the "stand-off " with the attacker Vince Li.
I will quote from the article your questions:
deDelley said an RCMP officer told her that the estimated time between the escape of the Greyhound passengers and driver, and trapping the killer on the bus - with the man finally exiting through a window - was about three hours.
"Why didn't they do something in that three hours, rather than having my son locked in with this maniac who, there was no question, had done this? And (they) allowed him to defile my son's body in the way that he did? What was their game plan? Why did they wait for him to throw himself out a window or fall out of it?"
She said and I quote "But that time frame is not working for me"
Mrs deDelley, that time frame isn't working for alot of us.
I posed a number of questions in a previous post on August 6/08 titled: Questions about the greyhound incident.
Below is the first question asked on Aug 6/08
"First: the police response to the attack, why did they do nothing, not get on the bus, not shoot the attacker through the window, nothing? I don't understand that. Not that I am bloodthirsty or anything, I am not even a proponent of the death penalty. But, what I cannot wrap my head around is that no action was taken to subdue the attacker, until he had broken a window and lept out of the bus"
Sounds alot like your questions Mrs deDelley's ?
When Vince Li and Tim McLean were the only persons left on the bus, why did the RCMP not move to subdue Vince Li? Why did they allow him to desecrate that young mans body and stand by? There were options: tear gas, pepper spray, tasers, and last of all guns. We know that the RCMP has access to all these options. The RCMP has tasered , tear-gassed and pepper-sprayed with impunity in other instances, where the circumstances were less horrendous then this. Which makes this all the harder to understand.
The time line of the incident is questionable, particularly the 3 hour time window for the stand-off, as explained to Mrs deDelley by the rcmp officer.
"the estimated time between the escape of the Greyhound passengers and driver, and trapping the killer on the bus - with the man finally exiting through a window - was about three hours"There seems to be two timelines, one put forth by the CBC:
(I'll come back to this one later.)
And one, that I'll put together here for you based on a number of different sources.
The first being a Globe and Mail news story
How a madman's blade cut Tim McLean's reunion short
JOE FRIESEN - Friday, August 01 -10:16 PM -Breaking News
"It was from Brandon, Man., some time before 8 p.m. that he sent the longest flurry of texts, she said. He planned to go see his father, collect his pet iguana from a friend and wanted to visit Ms. Storey later that night. After their relationship ended, he became like a brother to her, she said, and he was particularly devoted to her daughter, April. In his last message, Mr. McLean said his phone was dying and he was going to charge it when he got to Portage la Prairie.
Ten minutes later, his accused killer, 40-year-old Vincent Li, changed seats, making his way to the last row of the bus and sitting next to Mr. McLean. Witnesses said the younger man, barely 5 foot 5 and 125 pounds, had fallen asleep with his headphones on, his cheek resting against the window, while Zorro played on the bus's television screen."
Without warning, witnesses said, a man stood up and stabbed Mr. McLean several times in the throat and torso, sending passengers scrambling off the bus.
From the RCMP website:
Homicide on Greyhound Bus near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba
Statement by S/Sgt Steve Colwell, D Division
July 31, 2008
1: Re: Homicide on Greyhound Bus near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba
• On the evening of July 30, 2008, at approximately 8:30 p.m. (local time), Portage La Prairie RCMP were advised that a male subject had been stabbed on a Greyhound bus traveling eastbound on Highway #1 (Trans Canada Highway) approximately 20 kms West of Portage la Prairie, Manitoba.
This notification to the rcmp, corresponds with the time frame set out in the Globe and Mail article, see above. Tim Mclean sends a flurry of text messages before 8:00 p.m. Some ten minutes later Vince Li , changes seats, moving to sit next to Tim Mclean. Shortly thereafter Vince Li begins stabbing a dozing Tim Mclean. If one assumes the stabbing began within ten minutes of the seat change, that would line up pretty well with the call to the RCMP coming in, according to their own press release at approximately 8:30 p.m.
Continuing on with the press release:
• RCMP officers immediately attended the scene and secured the bus, which was parked on the side of the highway. At this time victim and the suspect were still inside the bus. The driver and the remainder of the passengers had safely exited the bus prior to police arrival.
Would this not have placed the RCMP on this scene within approx 20 minutes? Meaning they would have been at the bus at, if not before nine pm?? Assuming driving 80 kms an hour, a distance of 20 kms is an approx 15 minute drive and adding an additional 5 minutes of grace, let's call it? When they arrived on the scene, all the passengers and driver have safely exited the bus prior to their arrival. Back to the press release:
• Attending RCMP officers observed the suspect walking around the inside of the bus. When attempts to have the suspect exit the bus and surrender to police proved to be unsuccessful, additional resources, including the RCMP “D” Division Emergency Response Team (ERT) and a Negotiator Team were called in to assist.
• The highway was closed in both directions to ensure the safety of first responders, the other bus passengers and driver.
• At 1:28 a.m., the suspect, a 40 year old male, believed to be from out of province, broke a window and jumped out of the bus. He was immediately subdued and arrested without incident. He is currently in RCMP custody. His identity will not being released at this time.
Question: How could the rcmp inform Mrs deDelley that the time of 3 hours, from passengers and driver exiting the bus, to Vince Li jumping through the window, was the actual one, when it doesn't seem possible? From their own press release, they acknowledge that by time they arrived on the scene, the bus was clear of drivers and passengers. They were called at 8:30 p.m. , with an assumed drive length of approx 20 kms and approx drive time of , being generous, 30 minutes to drives 20 kms. If this is correct, that puts them on the scene at 9:00 p.m. and Vince Li jumping out of the bus at 1:28 a.m. This is not a 3 hour time window, by any stretch of the imagination, this is infact an almost 4 1/2 hour time window.
Remember the CBC timeline I mentioned? It has the stabbing taking place at approx 9:00 pm they acknowledge it is an estimate, and given the Globe & Mail story and the RCMP media release, it is likely the wrong time, but let's say, for the sake of the argument the stabbing took place a half an hour later, that would still have the RCMP at the scene at 9:30, with passengers and driver no longer on the bus, and would still leave the stand-off window at 4 hours . Still an hour longer then Tim McLeans mother was informed of.Like I said Mrs deDelley, there are only more questions. None of this is going to give you peace of mind, but if it strengthens your resolve, knowing that you are not alone in asking these questions, that can be a good thing.