Monday, April 2, 2012

Syria: Russia's talk and the cancelled meeting with NATO

You may want to read the previous post for some background on the "Friends" meeting which covered the NATO angle on it all.
Today Russia's talk. When I have a bit more time, I might be able to dig up some more info but for now let's go with what I have.

First let's enjoy a site in Syria. If were going to discuss about the place, lets have a look!

Omayyed mosque- Damascus

FYI: I was reading that Damascus may be the longest continually inhabited city in human history.
What an amazing thought!

Moscow said on Monday that the “Friends of Syria” meeting in Istanbul was one-sided, adding it contradicted the goal of a peaceful settlement of the Syrian crisis.

"Unfortunately, the meeting in Istanbul was as one-sided" as previous such gatherings, the foreign ministry said in a statement.

"Its list of participants did not include either the Syrian government or many of the influential groups of the Syrian political opposition”,
the statement added.

"The promises and intentions to deliver direct military and logistical support to the armed... opposition that were voiced in Istanbul unquestionably contradict the goals of a peaceful settlement to the civil conflict in Syria”.

Speaking of the influential groups of the Syrian political opposition...

Russia is going to meet in mid April  with the opposition in Syria.

 The internal opposition ignored by the NATO goons, that I have previously mentioned. This  group supports the Anan initiative and was not invited to the “Friends” conference.

A delegation from the Syrian National Coordination Committee plans to visit Moscow “mid- April” for talks with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, the opposition bloc’s Hassan Abdel-Azim said.
           
The committee supports UN envoy Kofi Annan’s efforts and is ready to cooperate with international observers in Syria, Azim said, adding that the committee is demanding the release of all political prisoners in the country.

The committee wasn’t invited to the Friends of Syria Group meeting in Istanbul tomorrow, Azim said.
What to make of this? The Russia-NATO summit cancelled - March 23/2012
 

A Russia-NATO summit, which was scheduled in May, is cancelled. According to the official version, the summit was cancelled over “an intensive domestic political calendar in Russia.” However, the experts believe that this step is caused by disagreements of the parties concerned over the European missile defence system.

The Russia-NATO summit has stalled over the European missile defence system, the Kommersant daily reported. Experts noted that the decision to cancel a May meeting between Vladimir Putin and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen is linked with the disagreement over the vital issue. This is the missile defence system in Europe. The Russia-NATO summit was scheduled in Chicago in May, the newspaper recalled. However, the NATO general secretary stated that the summit will not be held at the scheduled time. He called as the reason “an intensive domestic political calendar in Russia.” The negotiators have nothing to say to each other, this is why the summit was postponed, director of the Institute of Strategic Planning and Forecasting Alexander Gusev noted.

“The postponement of the Russia-NATO summit is certainly linked with a quite serious political situation, primarily in Europe, over the deployment of the European missile defence along the borders with Russia. The question was certainly not settled. This primarily concerns relations between Russia and the EU states, so, the places, where the European missile defence systems will be deployed,” he noted. “I would like the summit to be held. All parties are interested in this, namely the United States, the NATO leadership, the EU states and Russia in the same way.”

The participation of the Russian president in the Russia-NATO summit was doubted already for several months, the Vedomosti noted. The Russian Foreign Ministry linked his visit to Chicago with the negotiations over the European missile defence system. In December 2011 Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov explained that a summit will depend from its substantial agenda. “If we had agreed on the missile defence by this time, it would have been easier for us to take a decision in favour of the summit,” Ryabkov said. For his part, Rasmussen acknowledged that the negotiators did not reach any progress in the negotiations.

Russia demands from NATO to give legally-binding guarantees for the European missile defence system not targeted against Russia and offer its own configuration of a common missile defence system for Russia and the West, the newspaper recalled. NATO representatives insist that Russia’s concerns are groundless. The European missile defence is not targeted against Russia, but against rogue states, primarily Iran, which is developing actively its nuclear program.

It seems Russia cancelled this meeting with NATO ????????
What could be the reasoning behind the cancellation? Is it just about the missile shield? Is the situation in Syria playing into this action?

22 comments:

  1. What is the reason for the cancellation?

    Easy, political cover.

    To hide the fact Russia and its leaders are throwing Syria to the wolves.

    Russia has already said it will not protect Syria militarily. It has already pressured Syria into agreeing to a rigged negotiation where Syria faces probably a 98% chance of failure. It has already delivered a message that Assad will die.

    The open mic 'mistake' between Obama and Medvedev, and the cancellation of the NATO meeting, were probably done to give the impression that Russia is standing up to the West. It isn't.

    I have no doubt, for instance, that it is working with NATO behind the scenes to do things like protect Russian property in Syria when NATO bombs. In fact, we know Russia is EXPANDING the number of bases the U.S. and NATO can use. Isn't this much more critical than holding meetings? If Russia were sincere about sending a message they would not allow NATO to use Russian bases to support the troops.

    Notice also that Russia is using a similar argument that the U.S. is using regarding war material--toilet paper and sat phones aren't used for war, or something.

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    1. History has shown that Russia always stands by its word unlike US, Turkey and Israel. This is very skeptical view with no proof....

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    2. WWM:

      I think you have already made up your mind on something that can be interpreted in so many ways....

      Perhaps they cancelled because there simply was no sense in attending.
      NATO has them in their sights, what difference another meeting?

      A thought on the use of the base?
      Have you considered that use of the base, gives Russia the capability of also withholding use of the base at a strategic time?

      Or how about the use of the base as a means to keep tabs on the US?

      There are so many options to consider

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    3. Anonymous 11:00 am
      regarding russia

      You made me think of the time...way back that the Czar.
      I think it was Czar Alexander sent a ship to the US to support troops during the American Civil War.
      All the way across the ocean.. At that time.
      What a powerhouse.

      Russia due to the fact that NATO is so massive, in armaments etc., with the biggest bruiser on the planet at the helm, has to act very shrewdly.
      So that every act counts.
      The cancellation of the meeting was a signal of some sort
      But of what sort?

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    4. It's very possible I'm biased against Russia Penny. Or that I'm reluctant to revise my views. Although I'm not conscious this bias.

      Again, if anything, I'm biased for the Russians.

      Anonymous,

      Everything I wrote above is backed up by facts. The Communist party in Russia largely agrees with me btw. The Communist party has criticized Putin et al. for allowing NATO to use more bases in Russia. This is happening right now.

      Why would Russia assist the American and NATO by allowing use of Russian bases if Russia was serious about standing up to NATO aggression?

      I wish Russia were serious and that I could trust her because I can't trust the West.

      But wishes aren't reality.

      If Russia were serious about defending Syria and stopping U.S. hegemony in the region it would be acting much differently. Instead, we are getting the good cop act, like they are the Democratic party or something.

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    5. Total agreement Walter. But it makes since if one knows their hidden history. Damn shame. There is no divisions of real substance within the Elite. It is not one Elite side vs The Other. It is just the People vs the Elite, all of them.

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    6. Sorry WWM, I forgot to address this point

      "I have no doubt, for instance, that it is working with NATO behind the scenes to do things like protect Russian property in Syria when NATO bombs."

      I have to strongly disagree with you on that point.
      Very strongly. With the agenda to destroy Russia firmly in NATO's plans. There would be no guarantees or concessions made to protect any Russian assets or property within Syria.

      The very reason Syria must be destroyed, in the opinion of NATO, is to cut Russia off from warm water access via the Mediterranean.

      Therefore that line of thinking is IMO incorrect

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    7. At least we don't have long to wait to find out what happens.

      My guess is any Russian assets at the military base are secured and untouched after the NATO attack. Unless there is a mistake like there was with the Chinese--probably done for appearances sake.

      It is very significant that Russia already promised the West it would not intervene militarily in Syria. Russia is an ally with Syria, so normally an attacking country would be worried about a Russian military response. Russia is not acting like an adversary who is fighting the U.S. for control of the region. Why would Russia simply give up on such an important issue?

      For instance, why just have one ship in the port? Why not send a bunch of ships to send a message? This is what the U.S. did when Georgia and Russia started fighting. The U.S. pushed the limits and didn't admit right away that it would never use force to defend Georgia.

      I agree that the U.S. wants to control access to the Mediterranean and I once thought Russia was competing with the U.S. to control the resources and access to this region. So I once thought the U.S. did want to destroy Russia (hey, I was brought up on anti-Soviet propaganda). And maybe they really do, but they probably plan on doing it with the assistance of the Russian elite. The evidence for this is falling into place more and more.

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  2. Apparently, Cyprus was not invited to the 'Friends of Syria' meeting either, and we are very much friends. It was Turkey that decided to keep us off the guest list, at least that is how the media spun it here.

    Marie
    aka Marty

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    Replies
    1. Sheesh, given the proximity to Syria I would think that nation very relevant to what is going on...

      But then there is the whole history of the Turks and the Cypriots

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  3. According to Western counter-insurgency doctrine, there are massive numbers of troops required to put down a rebellion. I recall 1 to 15 being bandied about.

    Syria, if it wants to put down this well-funded and deadly opposition, would have to flood these areas with troops if it wanted to decisively defeat these forces. Apparently, the Syrian Army just did this and it has hundreds of thousands of soldiers to do this. It may be way better positioned than Libya to put down an insurgency.

    But now, at the behest of Russia, Syria has agreed to fight an insurgency with one hand tied behind its back. I know the agreement is being misinterpreted, and the insurgents have not even agreed to it so there is not even actually an agreement! But . . . .

    it doesn't matter because the whole world is now acting like Syria has to remove its troops from the areas the areas the insurgents are attacking?.

    This agreement is the death knell for the government. There is no way they walk this back and pretty soon there will be massive force used to keep the Syrian army out of certain areas. This will prevent them from effecively engaging in counter-insurgency, and probably certain regions will collapse into choas.

    Russian will bemoan the turn of events, as if they didn't expect this to happen, but it was certain to happen the minute Russia pressured Syria to agree to this obvious Trojan Horse agreement.

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  4. Russia also controlled by the NWO cabal. They have been sent a couple messages if they continue to defy the "international" community in defense of Syria: Anyone take note of 'Europes tallest skyscraper' in Moscow that yesterday burnt down to the ground, mysteriously? Or the "opposition protesters" running loose after Putin's election, ready to do an Arab Spring on Russia? Certainly, Russia missed none of these signals.

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  5. Anonymous:

    while I will not deny there are bigger puppeteers then most of us know....

    does it make the killing, dying, torturing any less real for those on the receiving end?

    It doesn't.

    As for taking note of "opposition protestors" prior to the election and after in Russia, they were duly noted here.
    Of course Russia missed none of those signals, but if as you contend they are so controlled would any of that be necessary?

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    1. Very good reminder Penny. My thoughts really are with people that have to suffer these war crimes first hand. And people like Marty. Stay safe.

      So I don't care if I'm right or not in my predictions. I hope I'm wrong actually.

      The injustice of this drives me batty. I can't imagine this horror being visited on my family and it disgusts me that my government is doing this.

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    2. During the Russian war with Georgia the U.S. moved closer to Georgia and the Ukraine. Here's a right-wing think tank explaining it:

      "Complicating matters further, on its way out the door the Bush administration heightened the U.S. commitment to the protection of Ukraine and Georgia. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice signed “Charters on Strategic Partnership” with both countries, pledging to “support [both countries’] sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and inviolability of borders.” The charters are not treaties, and therefore have no legal authority. But along with U.S. support for these nations’ accession to nato, this sort of language might convince them that Americans will shield them from Russia, encouraging behavior that forces us either to renege on the pledges or face down Russia. An even vaguer commitment seems to have convinced Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili that the U.S. would protect him from Russia last summer, heightening his recklessness.

      The story U.S. analysts tell to justify another round of nato expansion is that Russia—fueled by energy wealth and Vladimir Putin—has reinvigorated its economy, cast off any pretenses of democracy and repaired its military. According to this scenario, Moscow is now poised to overrun its democratic neighbors and reclaim the Soviet empire, all the while gathering energy supplies to use to blackmail Western clients. Hitler and Stalin taught us that aggressors must be stopped early, so it follows that we must now contain Russia by extending security guarantees to its neighbors." http://www.cato.org/pubs/articles/friedman_logan_hittingstopbuttononnatoexpansion.pdf

      Notice that these Charters of Strategic Partnership were not as legally significant as a treaty, which Russia has with Syria for instance, yet the U.S. acted as if it would protect Georgia militarily while Russia didn't even though they had more of a legal obligation to do so.

      Was the whole Georgian conflict simply an excuse to bring Georgia and the Ukraine into NATO or at least justify U.S. military presence there?

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    4. 2nd try-need more coffee!

      Georgia was close to the US and Israel even before the attack on Russia.
      REally close to Israel
      Israel was all over that attack!
      And the US just left Georgia to fend for itself.
      Wondering if besides a test of Russia, this was a test for Georgia?

      Hey James do you recall the "tie eating" incident around that time?
      The video was hilarious.

      Anyway, right after that Israel started crying up a storm in the media
      Georgia isn't in NATO? I don't think?
      Ukraine may have gotten in under the western backed orange revolution???

      Sorry not according to wikipedia. they are a candidate

      Ukraine is as of January 2008 a candidate to join the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP).

      Does this make them not a full fledged member?
      I don't know?

      as for Georgia, they are still not NATO members
      http://www.messenger.com.ge/issues/2580_april_4_2012/2580_nato.html

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  6. @Walter Wit Man

    I see what your worry with regards to Russia is, however this would be the case if the weasel Medvedev was the main driver of this conflict for Russia. I have mentioned before that the Russian Orthodox Church, especially Patriarch Kirill have taken a principled stand to support the Syrians, their friendship goes centuries. It is not Putin either.

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  7. Walter, I think the right-wing think tank blurb is face saving spin, by and large. I think the Georgian incident was set up by the US using Georgian military and Saakashvili as the patsies if it all went south; which it did, bigtime. Remember how Saakashvili squealed like a stuck pig because the US weren't coming to his rescue!

    It was to test Russia's response but the US/israel must have thought they had a better than even chance of pulling it off which just points to their incompetence.

    Putin and the Russian military did everything right up until Putin agreed to retreat from Georgia. Big mistake in my book given Georgia's strategic importance and it being necessary to impose a lasting penalty for the aggression. Allowing the US to go back to square one without a strategic penalty just emboldens them.

    That brief Georgian war established definitively, in my mind at least, that Putin is NOT part of the NWO. However, elements within Russia (and probably including Medvedev) certainly are. Hence the schitzophrenic behaviour coming out of Russia in recent years.

    If I'm right, then things will change quite radically once Putin assumes power in May as President and in control of foreign policy. Syria is also due for elections in May so I would think NATO et al are consumed with creating mayhem in Syria before then.

    Maybe Assad thought he'd buy time till then with his agreement to the lunatic UN proposal.

    I remember that the US launched the Georgian war when Putin was at the Olympic Games. Maybe that is why he cancelled his meeting with NATO this coming May.

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  8. Hey Pen, I think a comment of mine went to spam

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  9. Walter, I think the right-wing think tank blurb is face saving spin, by and large. I think the Georgian incident was set up by the US using Georgian military and Saakashvili as the patsies if it all went south; which it did, bigtime. Remember how Saakashvili squealed like a stuck pig because the US weren't coming to his rescue!

    It was to test Russia's response but the US/israel must have thought they had a better than even chance of pulling it off which just points to their incompetence.

    Putin and the Russian military did everything right up until Putin agreed to retreat from Georgia. Big mistake in my book given Georgia's strategic importance and it being necessary to impose a lasting penalty for the aggression. Allowing the US to go back to square one without a strategic penalty just emboldens them.

    That brief Georgian war established definitively, in my mind at least, that Putin is NOT part of the NWO. However, elements within Russia (and probably including Medvedev) certainly are. Hence the schizophrenic behaviour coming out of Russia in recent years.

    If I'm right, then things will change quite radically once Putin assumes power in May as President and in control of foreign policy. Syria is also due for elections in May so I would think NATO et al are consumed with creating mayhem in Syria before then.

    Maybe Assad thought he'd buy time till then with his agreement to the lunatic UN proposal.

    I remember that the US launched the Georgian war when Putin was at the Olympic Games. Maybe that is why he cancelled his meeting with NATO this coming May.

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  10. Grrrr... dam you spam file! Dam you!

    ReplyDelete

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