Tuesday, October 9, 2012

NATO will "defend" Turkey - Turkey wrong to attack Syria

Breaking news this a.m seems to be NATO is ready to go  How ugly will it get?

NATO says it is ready to defend alliance member Turkey amid artillery exchanges along its tense southeastern border with Syria.

Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Tuesday that Ankara can rely on the alliance, which has "all necessary plans in place to protect and defend Turkey if necessary."
The clincher? Syria says it is not seeking any escalation of violence with Turkey.

More  and still more: NATO has plans to defend Turkey if needed

"We have all necessary plans in place to protect and defend Turkey if necessary," NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told reporters before a meeting of the alliance's defense ministers in Brussels.

NATO isn't even pretending this is humanitarian. As if it ever was! Syria was fine until NATO's mercs entered the picture.  It is the defense of Turkey. And, it isn't even that. This is the planned, plotted and conspired for take down of Syria.

Opinion piece;Turkey wrong to attack Syria, further bloodshed is 'no solution'

Turkey's unsavoury track record of invasion and occupation, not to mention the violation of the principles of international and European law, must also be kept in mind – claims MEP

On October 4, the Turkish parliament approved a law authorising the army to carry out operations in Syria. Since then, Turkey has been attacking targets in Syria.
Parliament last week authorised the deployment of Turkish troops beyond its borders although government officials said the move was meant as a deterrent rather than a "war mandate".

The Syrian people have a right to self-determination so they can carry out much-needed reforms in their country without any foreign military interference.

The horrific humanitarian consequences of military interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya have highlighted the urgent need for peace and negotiations. War only leads to more uncertainty, destruction, and loss of life.

 Turkey's unsavoury track record of invasion and occupation, not to mention the violation of the principles of international and European law, must also be kept in mind. The most notorious example of this is its ongoing occupation of the northern part of the island of Cyprus in violation of the UN charter and the human rights and civil liberties of the Cypriot people. Its prevention of a bicommunal, bizonal federation solution for Cyprus in line with UN resolutions is threatening the peace process and endangering stability in a volatile region.
Not to mention Turkey regularly striking in Iraq.. 

 Now that NATO has stated publicly and unequivocally they have Turkey's back, it would make sense that Turkey will continue attacking Syria. Though I still hold out hope that this will not escalate.


  1. okay! It seems those ppl involved in destroying Syria are ready for a much bigger bloodfest then I've imagined!Ill just take it as it is. My concern right now is more how to interpret the syrian-iranian defense-pact. What does that exactly mean?! Sure, theoretically Iran should jump in as soon as Syria becomes a prey of an ivasion, but, i just fear this is not going to happen. If NATO or Turkey took this pact seriously, they wouldnt think of invading Syria, rite? For anyone who has more info about that issue, plz correct me! Id love to be wrong on that assumption! I really would!

    1. This is what I've been focused on.

      Looking at FARS I saw an alleged report that Iran is calling for calm on both sides.

      As my comment in the last thread stated, I think the perps are hijacking media like SANA and FARS, so I don't trust these stories. Maybe this story is real, or mostly real, but they have scrubbed the other stories that show Iran and Syria more strongly defending themselves.

      In fact, I'm pretty sure our media is hijacked right now. It has that feel to it.

      So I don't know if Syria and Iran take their agreement seriously. I would like to know as well. As far as I know they held their cards to their vests by not revealing the full extent of their agreement.

      Now what does it look like if they are indeed taking their alliance seriously?

      I imagine they both focus on their regions. Iran would project force into the Gulf countries, oil interests, and the U.S. fleet and bases. Syria would focus on Turkey and resistance type fighting in Lebanon and Iraq, etc. Both would probably attack Israel equally but they run the risk of spreading themselves thin trying to attack too many places.

      I don't know how much they need to share troops and material. They probably can both use what they have on hand and won't bother trying to do arms transfers. Prolly too late for that. They will both have to shoot their wads--i.e. their missiles. Their planes and ships can keep NATO busy while they unload their missiles. I'm no expert but I imagine they would only have a few days/weeks to do this.

      So basically I think Iran and Syria sticking together will simply mean they start making the diplomatic/legal case for their defense. Maybe they realize they are encircled and that a joint secret attack is the best option. I imagine that would just consist of coordinating the timing and sticking to the general division of labor I outline above.

      Iran/Syria have been portrayed as being somewhat wimpy so far but I also think they could be clever waiting until a moment like this to draw a line and defend themselves. Of course the media is completely complicit so I imagine this portrayal has simply been effective propaganda.

      Syria and Iran could be jumping up and down screaming and no one is listening to them.

    2. thanks for ur reply. It seems ideed as if any "diplomatic" efforts are not of any importance rite now. Its a deadlock. Maybe Syria and Iran, together with russian intelligence have the means to consistently damage the saudi-turkish-american military capabilities in a joint effort, which would just change the powerstructures on the ground, which in turn would force those warmongers to accept a diplomatic solution! I hope so! Kalimbour

    3. My gut tells me that the chance of a diplomatic or peaceful solution is less than 10%.

      These finks want war and I don't see this getting walked back. The happy talk/diplomatic talk is a distraction. This distraction works on American lefties and many others but the Syrians and Iranians can't be nearly as deluded. I believe the Russians are actually stringing Syria and Iran along to make it easier to attack them

      Regardless of whether Iran/Syria suspects Russia's intentions, once they realize war is certain then they have to be making the calculations I'm making above. That's why they did the mutual defense agreement in the first place! To show the West that they will make them pay a price for invasion and trying to split them up.

      Who knows, I've wondered if even the leaders of Syria and Iran are really working with the West and are only feigning opposition while they lull their societies into getting attacked.

      And imho if Syria and Iran are smart they won't rely on Russia at all for intelligence! It's likely to be false and misleading and anything they say to Russia will probably be passed on. Russia has abandoned Syria and its actions of pretending to care are actually more harmful than helpful. Syria can't afford to attack Russia or make a big deal out of it right now . . . they just need to walk away like one would walk away from an abusive boyfriend.

    4. Well i know russias cuddling with syria is not about empathy. Russia has a clear and cold view about their aim. But i wouldnt go as far as pretending Russia is trying to protect its interest by only paing lipservice. Now that the world is used to perceive Russia as an ally to Syria, it wld be a huge blow to their credibility, if they just tip-toed away, trying to make up with their harshest critic, bearing in mind they have this naval supply base in Tartus. But ive to say, i find it irritating Russia is not showing more resolve, be it by word or by actions. In the mean time, whatever russias intention may be, theyve but up some time for the syr gov to finish off those Nato-mercs in syria, blocking any UN resolution playing into the hands of these terrorists. Furthermore, I think Russia has recognized the fact, that by the day, Natos/us/eu/saudi intentions are getting exposed even to the average person. I think Russia is just being cautious, but definetely, they re going to put a stick in NATos wheel whenever they get a chance to do it, and can be sure not to lose any credibility . Why would they give up on syria and Iran now, as the lies of the west begin to stink allover the globe? As for Assad and Ahmadin being in bed with all others...well that might be aswell, but then were talking about a totally different level of analysis. SO ill leave it there

    5. Actually i didnt get that last part, sorry im not a native speaker: What do u mean when u say:Who knows, I've wondered if even the leaders of Syria and Iran are really working with the West and are only feigning opposition while they lull their societies into getting attacked?

    6. regarding this comment from WWM

      " I've wondered if even the leaders of Syria and Iran are really working with the West and are only feigning opposition while they lull their societies into getting attacked? "

      Reminding you of the demise of Ghadaffi
      And the strike on Assad in Damascus way back which was a definite assassination attempt.
      Also the Syrians, as the Libyans, were getting attacked.
      There is no "lulling" going on.
      The Libyans were under attack prior to the NATO intervention and the Syrians have been under attack for 19 months now
      It is not a lull it is reality
      What goes on IMO is double crossing
      Always double crossing

      As for Russia, as I have said repeatedly here, IMO,
      the fate of Syria is their fate

      It is obvious and has been ongoing for longer then Syria's destabilization

      Ditto for China

    7. I think you got my meaning of that statement the first time anonymous. I suspect the Iranian and Syrian leadership could secretly be controlled by the West.

      It is only a thought of mine and I don't know how likely it is. As Penny notes it does remind me of Ghadaffi's demise i.e. he didn't seem to do any damage to his real tormentors before they offed him. Doesn't seem to comport with real human psychology. Reminds me of Saddam as well. Why weren't these guys able to exact revenge or get their pound of flesh before their demise? Against Israel or the U.S?

      I'm more open to this possibility that the Syrian/Iranian leadership is controlled now that I suspect Russia of serving a similar duplicitous role.

      But Penny is right there is no lulling going on. While these wars may only be small scale for now, they are real wars. Even the economic warfare does real damage to real people.

    8. Well, they all have in bed together at a certain time, Assad and Sarkozy, Ghaddafi and Clinton, Hussein and Reagan...but thats always because there were some bonuses at hand! Controlled by infiltrators? Who knows. But that casts us away from a discussion, in which we have proofs for the hidden agenda! In the end, u could always argue them "leaders up there" all are off the same breed and so on..but...that wld end any political discussion. kalimbour

  2. The agreement by Iraq and Russia is curious ($4.8B arms deal which is said to include: A noted military analyst and the Vedomosti business daily both reported that the $4.3 billion negotiated arms agreement involves 30 Mi-28 attack helicopters and 42 Pantsir-S1 surface-to-air missile systems. This occurring as Turkey violated the airspace yesterday, again.

    Curious set of headlines. A few days ago Haaretz ran with the byline that no attack in cards for fall as the fordo sabotage had pushed the program back until mid next year. Today, Haaretz reiterates an 8 month time frame. However a US think tank says 2-4 months while Haaretz runs the headline about the US and Israel thinking targeted strikes. It happens that Romney released his hawkish-Neocon FP yesterday that called for escalating in Syria and Iran.





    In View of Oct 22 foreign policy debate, does Obama feel compelled to do something in view of Romney line of attack (Libya just threw out the PM)? Skies dark? Russia/Eurasia exercises ongoing. Azerbijan just convicted Iranian plotters (last week Haaretz claimed Azeri was looking at ways to assist Israel in strikes).



    The info campaign is in full forces (including Iran FX). Recall Iran said yesterday Israel would lose 10K

    And then there is that curious case of the drone in Lebanon.Israel warned them of 'total destruction" back in July


    The markings of information and economic campaign clear but is the "doth protest too much" coming out of Israel suggesting the 3rd leg of the stool (military) campaign set to kick off? And is that Syria buffer zone about clearing the IDF route?

  3. Curious: Israel is said to be deploying Patriot Missiles in response to the drone incursion? "State media in Iran, Hezbollah's sponsor, said the incursion "exposed the weakness of Israel's Iron Dome anti-missile defense system" and quoted an official who said the system "does not work." Israel's "Iron Dome" system is meant to destroy incoming rockets and artillery shells…"????


    1. I notice Israel is looking to get ready for war
      How soon, I don't know, can't tell
      But, it seems preparations are being made

  4. the arms deal with Iraq is interesting, because it seems to have been made some time ago


    "The joint statement said the deals were secretly discussed as early as April and revisited against in July and August during visits to Russia by Iraqi delegations that included Defence Minister Saadoun al-Dulaimi."

    Wonder if anything has been delivered yet?

  5. Also saw the Israeli media is spinning how Romney will be better for Israel and Obama is hostile
    This is bullshit. Obviously
    So is the Israeli media trying to create the perception that Obama can not be counted on
    enabling Obama to maintain a "distance" even though he is up to it, to his "eye teeth"

  6. I don't know if this was in amongst the links left by anonymous
    but this is interesting

    Jordan appoints Israel ambassador after two-year break

    This suggests to me the pieces are falling into place to push the Palestinians into Jordan

    1. 3 Strike routes (North (Syria/Azerbaijan; central/Jordan, South Saudi)? Saudi said a few months ago would shoot down planes for what that is worth. Azerbaijan in the north could help as leaked. The Brotherhood in Jordan is threatening to boycott the elections as the King tries to press reforms cautiously (IMF just granted them a loan of $2B in July). Also, US a few weeks ago accused Iraq of allowing Iran to overfly the airspace. The US also announced redeployment of spec-ops to Iraq. Finally Russia has been maneuvering in its South and the current exercises put operational assets in the theater so to say. Israel surprised 2 weeks ago with that northern border drilling (Israel general back in July warned over next Lebanon war). The raft of Egypt militant attacks on the southern border has rearmed the Sinai. As far as Israel is concerned, the drone incursion from Lebanon/Hezbollah/Iran (?) provides what the 2011/2012 Egypt border attacks did for the South?

  7. This is fitting in wake of Kosovo final status (Fars)

    A Kurdish news website unveiled a secret document showing an agreement among Turkey, US, and some Kurdish groups to set up a federal state in Syria after helping terrorists overcome Bashar al-Assad's government, and provide military backup for that state.

    Voice of Kurdistan said that Turkey, US and some Kurdish groups in a secret meeting in the Iraqi Kurdish city of Erbil on September 2 agreed to provide financial and military backup for the establishment of a federal government in Syria.

    They also agreed on the construction of several military airports in western Kurdistan and providing support for the Kurdish dissident groups supporting Turkey against Bashar al-Assad's government.

  8. Interesting bit of news on the Russian front with Iraq, Penny.

    Not likely anything delivered yet, and it will take a couple of years for training, infrastructure & deliveries to make it an effective force, but sheer fact of the deal will likely start having an impact shortly.

    Very smart purchases from Maliki, & serves a number of purposes:

    Adding serious weight behind Iraq's demand for Turkey to remove their bases & stop cross-border raids, but also serving to force the Kurd's to stop cutting deals with western oil companies behind the central governments' back. It will also discourage them playing footsies the US/Israeli/GCC factions who seem to be encouraging the Kurds to play up the seperatism/autonomy card. They're part of Iraqi nation, & this will only backfire on them in the long run.

    The Mi-28's are also very good insurance against the now very heavily armed Saudi inspired salafi militias spilling over from Syria, Turkey, Libya, etc.

    The Saudi's have made it clear from the start that they want Maliki gone, & the Salafi militias now have access & training with some serious anti-aircraft weapons & sophisticated comm gear, making them dangerous to confront with the weapons the US is supplying, & would likely cost them heavy losses.

    The Mi-28 is the most heavily armoured chopper in the world, with sophisticated defences, electronics, & enormous firepower, and would put an enormous brake on these militias setting up strong points from which they can expand on Iraqi soil.
    The Iraqi military should prioritise training & deployment of these as soon as the Russians get production up & going.
    (they only started full-scale production for their own forces recently, but it looks advanced enough now that they can likely churn out extras reasonably quickly.)

    Also, this is the first contract - apparently there is another in the works looking to turn Iraq into more of an independant regional power that can stand on it's own feet. Advanced Mig-29 variants, & likely more powerful air-defences (Buk-M2E is likely).

    1. that deal comes the same day that the EIA is out saying IRaq oil production could double by 2020 as I recall.


      To put that in context the Saudi pumping 10M bpd and saying they could do 12 if "needed". Of course that is if it isnt "twilight"

  9. Another story with Syria - the effect that sanctions are having:

    Sanctions hit home as Syrians face winter

    Most of Syria's power generation capacity runs off fuel oil or natural gas, & with winter coming up now, it looks like hitting the Syrian people hard. Iran's looking to supply some, but they are having a hard time dealing with their own sanctions.
    Russia is also supplying some from an agreement earlier, but shipping companies, banks & insurance companies are unwilling to take the risk of taking supply contracts to Syria for pretty much anything now, as US & EU agencies go after pretty much anyone that does so and look to freeze their assets, no matter how innocuous the deliveries are.

    Nasty stuff.

  10. Sanctions do what they always do - they harm, cripple and starve the poor and innocent, while hardly touching the rich and elite who are in power, no matter where they are done - Iraq, Africa, North Korea, Cuba, etc. It really makes no difference.

    You'd think after seeing this same pattern SO many times, people might start to wonder if that isn't the true goal of "sanctions", right??

    Because, you know when it happens the same way EVERY time, that it is not just "unintended consequences" - it IS the true goal and it works like a charm.

    The rich and powerful control the $$$ and resources, and everyone else who doesn't, suffers. It is very similar to EU/IMF/World Bank "austerity", when you think about it. The rich world leaders are doing fine and getting nice new office furniture every year at the EU and UN, while those they "lead" are facing crippling hyperinflation to pay off their nation's debts? Hello???

    Military sanctions for being "naughty" with physical warfare, or IMF/World Bank financial crimes against humanity with loan sharking/extortion both have pretty much the same effects on the general populations of innocent people around the world. One uses bullets and bombs, the other uses accountants - suits, ties and lies. Same results, though, more or less.

    Any questions???

  11. the usual language reversal:'rs Fogh Rasmussen said Tuesday that Ankara can rely on the alliance, which has "all necessary plans in place to protect and defend Turkey if necessary."'

    the agressor has to be 'defended' not the victim...the media's role is to demonise the victim and angelise the agressor.
    Whys is Foggy not in jail?

  12. Meanwhile back in Libya: Bani Walid is under siege, completely sealed for over a week. Now the rats are using rockets and chemical weapons against the population. Is there any condemnation of this in the MSM?

    Several reports from Morris here

    1. Could be true, but considering Morris Herman's past record for providing accurate knowledge of events in Libya, it might pay to suspend credulity. Here is one of his reports trumpeting complete nonsense just days before the wheels really fell off Gaddafi's Regime and the Rebels took Tripoli. He is a classical example of a useful idiot, something he can't help conveying every time he opens his mouth.

    2. someone who is anonymous is in no position to criticise someone who is not...Morris is far more accurate than anon, who if he had the courage would put a face and name.

      beware anyone posting ANON..he is usualy an eg of a useless idiot

    3. The video report from Morris says it all about his skills as a journalist. You hardly need a name to point that out. You hardly need much of a Brain Brian to realise that. Here's poor old Morris and another useful idiot masquerading as a journalist and reiterating pure idiotic propaganda dished up by the disintergrating Gaddafi Regime.

    4. I would greatly appreciate your advice, Anonymous, regarding whom you consider to be accurate and reliable sources of news about Libya, Syria and current events in general. You clearly have a great deal of information at your fingertips and I'm sure we could all learn much from you.

    5. Hey Freethinker:

      Anonymous at 3;36 am is the troll from New Zealand.
      The one that spends many many hours at my blog daily.
      We can be rest assured "Dunedin" has no information at all
      Only resorting to the usual ad hominems

    6. My tongue was firmly in cheek Pen ;)

    7. Hey Freethinker
      I thought as much, but, just in case....

  13. Wayne Sonter : While there has been no reference to Carr's criminal comments in the press in Australia, outside responses to the ABC program, which has stirred SBS to run with his pathetic response, it has come to the attention of Global Research, which demolishes Carr's 'just saying' ambit - as if he is not flying ballons to test likely public response for what is already underway behind the scenes among the "Friends of Syria" conspirators! See: http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-is-the-west-contemplating-the-assassination-of-president-bashar-al-assad/

  14. @freethinkerOctober 10, 2012 12:34 AM

    Libya: Bani Walid is no different then Iraq Fallujah, who cared?

    1. and that is dam sad hans

      Freethinker and hans I have touched on the Bani Walid saga today, allegedly tied to that "killer" of Gadaffi
      A narrative I do not believe
      It is in part two of my massive new post, that got cut into two parts

  15. Oh and ty to everyone else, but the troll, for their contributions
    I was so busy working on the post, i didn't have time to respond