Wednesday, October 10, 2012

Pt 1- Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq etc., leading us back to Libya

This post has been updated with the news of Turkey forcing a  plane flying from Moscow to Damscus to land, in Turkey.

 This is Part 1 of a post that got very long and cumbersome.

Click the link and read  Pt 2- Libya: the deaths of Ambassador Stevens & Mr Shaaban, Seige of Bani Walid
Though you may not think so, these pieces are best read together, seriously.
Strangeness abounds around the Ambassador's death. And a meeting with a Turkish diplomat prior to the seige on 'compound'? Did the Ambassador meeting with the Turkish diplomat have something to do with Syria? Highly likely.

Part 2 now has an update of additional video showing Ambassador Stevens- ALIVE and being removed from the building the US security had locked him in.


 Turkey warns Syria of “tougher response” on continued “shelling”

General Necdet Özel, the Turkish chief of staff:
“If this continues we will respond with greater force,” he said during a visit to Akçakale, a border town where five people were killed by a Syrian shell last week in the incident that pushed tensions to a new height.

Of course who exactly is undertaking the shelling of Turkey is still in question. Truth, however, doesn’t  deter NATO media from selling war. If Turkey really wants this to stop, oh I don’t know, stop sending the mercs across the border? Turkey could also stop supplying the mercs with mortars to fire back at Turkey from Syria. Come on Turkish government, you can help your people. You can do it! (I mentioned the NATO supplied mortars in Monday's post)

The mortar used to attack the Turkish town of Akcakale is a design specific to NATO and was given to Syrian rebels by Ankara, according to Turkey’s Yurt newspaper. The mortar killed one adult and four children from the same family on Wednesday.

An article by the paper’s Editor-in-Chief, Merdan Yanardag, states that the newspaper received information from a reliable source, which claimed that Turkey itself sent the mortars to rebels in the so-called "free army."

Putin cancels his trip to Turkey-

He (General Necdet Özel)  made his statement as news emerged that Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, had postponed a visit to Turkey scheduled for next week – a trip the Turkish government had seen as an opportunity to talk Moscow out of its support for the regime of Bashar al-Assad.

What to make of that development? Is Russia giving Turkey the cold shoulder over it’s involvement in Syria?  Time will tell. Curiously timed though, is a warning from Iraq, regarding NATO intervention in Syria?!?!


Iraq warns Turkey not to drag NATO into Syria
In the midst of a visit to Russia, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has warned Turkey not to blow-up its differences with Syria and drag NATO into the conflict.

Visiting Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s veiled support for the Syrian government came soon after Baghdad revived its military ties with Moscow. Mr. Maliki’s three-day visit to Russia was crowned on Tuesday with the announcement of a $4.2-billion weapons deal.

Was this warning via Mr Maliki really a warning from Putin?

An act of defiance on the part of Turkey?

Turkish F16s intercept Syrian civilian flight from Moscow to Damascus?
 H/T to KenM


Turkish F16 fighter jets forced a Syrian airline passenger plane to land in Ankara. The Damascus-bound plane, which had departed from Moscow, is being inspected.

Russia’s Foreign Ministry said diplomats are already heading to the airport and sent an information request to the Turkish Foreign Ministry.

The preliminary information is that out of 35 passengers, there may be 17 Russians on board, children among them,” Maria Zakharova, the chief of the Foreign Ministry’s Information Department, exclusively told RT. “This report is being checked.”
 A preliminary passenger list is included with the RT article  You know the whole suspicious cargo story is pure fabrication, right?


It is hitting the news today that the US has, make that had as in previously, sent a team of advisors to Jordan. These advisors have been there for sometime now. The US is merely confirming this very old news- If you have been following along here you would have known special ops were present in Jordan in 2011. It was mentioned in this post - Dec 13/2011Syria: the beat goes on Part 3

Quoting from my previous post...
“USSF Soldiers were in Jordan as part of a Joint Combined Exchange Training exercise, or JCET, with Jordanian forces. These types of exercises are designed to provide training opportunities for American Special Forces in countries that the forces may one day have to operate in, as well as providing training opportunities for the armed forces of the host country.”
Then again in May 2012 the special ops in Jordan are mentioned. Eager Lions

Here is the latest "news" that is not really all that new US Troops operating in Jordan near Syrian border 
Except for the talk is of a “buffer zone”, but then if one is preparing for attack.......
“the possibility of a buffer zone in southern Syria, enforced by Jordanian troops with American logistical support, had also been discussed.”
 US troops are operating in Jordan near the Syrian border in the biggest fixed deployment of American force in the region since the end of operations in Libya last year, officials have confirmed.

Speaking of the alleged attacks that took place in Damscus yesterday?????
 Did this attack happen? Or did it not happen?
I am fence sitting on this one. The reporting around that story has some strange characteristics.
Demonstrated in this piece from the Telegraph, but, also apparent in other NATO media pieces.

First problem. The picture that accompanies this “news” is a photo  allegedly from Aleppo.

                            Relatives wheel a injured boy outside a hospital following shelling in Aleppo

When was this photo taken in Aleppo? Was it actually taken in Aleppo? Why is a photo allegedly from Aleppo being used to bolster the story of an attack in Damascus?
The Independent story on the alleged Damascus bombing is even stranger
Here is the headline: Suicide bombers attack Air Force intelligence compound on edge of Damascus in the latest sign of Islamist influence 
Despite the headline here is the first paragraph..

The Free Syrian Army today threatened to “teach a lesson” to Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah by hitting targets in the Lebanese capital as two suicide bombers in vehicles laden with explosives struck a regime intelligence building in Damascus.

And more on Hezbollah-
“If Hezbollah do not stop helping the Assad regime, we will teach Hassan Nasrallah a big lesson inside his area in Beirut
Mr Masri claims that the FSA has captured 13 Hezbollah fighters in the region of Homs over the past two weeks. ”
And on and on about Hezbollah and Lebanon. Then the piece moves on to Turkey/NATO and then almost as an afterthought the alleged Damascus bombing. No photo accompanying that article.
The Telegraph article mentions this, also interesting
“ Unusually for this type of rebel activity, it was not reported in state media.”
Which is correct, there is no reporting of this alleged bombing taking place in Damascus. I checked today and nothing. You can check for yourself, SANA

The group that claimed they undertook the bombing in Damascus supposedly put video on line, but no NATO media outlets seems to have used the footage. Why? Was it simply  non credible? Why has SANA not reported on this alleged bombing? Why is the NATO/western mainstream media covering the story in such a bizarre manner?  Was the whole story a western media psyop? I just don’t know.


  1. Feel free to leave comments for both posts here in Part 1's comment section
    It would make it more convenient for well, everyone

    There is much time spent in these posts. Whew!

    1. Some advice for you from the much suffering Palestinians.

      Realpolitik and the activist.
      "However, it is perverse if not downright hypocritical when political activists apply the logic and methods of realpolitik while simultaneously claiming a higher moral purpose, namely to uncover the truth and instil a sense of justice in international relations. This is because the principles of realpolitik are intrinsically incompatible with ethical politics. It is a choice of either/or, and where realpolitik and ethics coincide the coincidence tends to be one of chance. So, when “moralists” engage in realpolitik this besmirches their purported morality and diminishes them to the point where their moral standing is at least no greater than that of their amoral foes.
      Yet, this is precisely what some self-styled “leftists” and “anti-imperialists” who seek to influence public opinion, principally through the internet-based “alternative media”, are doing. Their positions towards the Arab Awakening, especially the uprisings in Libya and Syria, are based largely on the cold logic of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” – even if “the enemy of my enemy” is fighting to suppress the very human and civil rights which the “moral” activist claim to advocate.
      As we have said previously, there is no doubt that the United States and its NATO allies are cynics and hypocrites who decry crimes against humanity in one place while simultaneously ignoring or supporting them in another. We have every right to be suspicious of the motives that may have driven them to dash for the moral high ground in Libya and Syria, having originally shunned the first flames of the Arab Awakening in Tunisia and Egypt and turned a blind eye to the violent repression of the popular uprising in Bahrain, not to mention their support for the backward and misogynist monarchy in Saudi Arabia.
      But that does not mean that we should denounce them when they actually do the right thing – such as protecting the Libyan people from certain massacre or seeking to stop the Syrian regime from slaughtering its people – just because they are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or not doing it across the board. And it certainly does not mean that we should castigate those who, out of desperation and through lack of choice, accept American and NATO assistance when others have consciously taken the decision to deny them support.
      Nor does it mean that the double standards of the US and its allies give the “leftist” and “anti-imperialist” activists who denounce them a licence to ape them by supporting tyrants, fascists and mass murderers."

    2. "Would it have been morally justifiable to allow Libyan tyrant Muammar Gaddafi to carry out his promise of 17 March 2011 to send his thugs to Benghazi – a city of one million people – within hours and drown its inhabitants in blood, “house by house, room by room and alley by alley”?

      But then that never happened.
      Was that a legit possibility? Or a NATO fabrication via the media?

      Whilst the slaughter of Libyans did and continues via NATO guns, chemical weapons and bombs

      Oh and FYI the author is a Libyan
      Not Palestinian

      Odd though how the author of this piece bows to the NATO line, like a "limited hangout" kind of "gatekeeping" writer

      Perhaps he should read the work of other authors promoted by Redress or Shoah?

      "Muslim disunity has made it possible for Israel to dispossess the Palestinians, for the US to invade Iraq and for the US to rule much of the region through puppets.
      " Etc etc

      A disunity the Libyan contributes to by promoting the NATO intervention as legit in Libya
      Rather then promoting continuing NATO slaughter perhaps this Libyan should promote unity amongst Muslim Arabs?

      Rather then demonizing and using ad hominems against certain individuals. Who by the fact of not supporting a NATO invasion were not supporting Gaddafi,
      That is a fallacy.

      In fact that piece you chose is full of fallacies and ad hominems.

      Which is unsurprising for someone such as yourself.

      The author should promote real peace. Not servitude to western interests via guns, bombs and theft of resources

      And, yet more servitude is exactly what the author chooses to promote a servitude in the interests of some, but, not all.

      As Paul Craig Roberts points out division is the very problem that has left many of the Arab/Muslims in the exact mess they are in today

      The definition of insanity is to do the same thing repeatedly and expect different results

    3. So Nureddin Sabir
 is the editor of That article was originally published in Redress Why Shoah would think it worth reprinting is beyond me. Perhaps they have been infiltrated, like so many pro-Palestine organisations.

      Here is another gem by Sabir: The West is doing the right thing in Libya. Well that worked out well. Clearly Sabir wants the same treatment for Syria.

      Is Sabir a fool or a knave?

    4. Hey Freethinker

      Who ever Nureddin Sabir may be, I don't know, but what is clear is NATO agenda promotion
      which is why I cited the Paul Craig Roberts piece, for the "anonymous" commenter aka troll

      Nureddin Sabir is promoting more of the same for the Arab Muslims, a tactic, that has gotten them into exactly the mess they are in today
      Divided and conquered.

      Besides the piece is full of admominems and logical fallacies, written as well as an bit of propaganda can be written

      I did spend some time trying to figure out who this person was?
      Nothing found
      Tried to find out how Redress gets there funding
      because they are a privately funded NGO
      Hardee har har
      Who funds them, owns them.
      Highly unlikely they are getting enough donations from individuals...
      Should you stumble upon anything let me know

    5. Freethinker

      re: Nureddin Sabir

      You aren't kidding on the non-existent
      Sure there are profiles around, but, the only pieces are very pro nato
      I found this piece on Shoah


      I am not so sure about the intentions of Shoah promoting this stuff

      Written as if the individuals who are not supportive of the balkanization of Syria are the supporters of Israel

      This is over the top kind of stuff
      When the ruin of Syria benefits Israel and only the supporters of Israel don't want this known
      IN fact my pointing out the obvious benefits to Israel is what brought the troll here

      I am starting to wonder if Nureddin Sabir is non existent

    6. Freethinker

      re: Nureddin Sabir

      You aren't kidding on the non-existent
      Sure there are profiles around, but, the only pieces are very pro nato
      I found this piece on Shoah


      I am not so sure about the intentions of Shoah promoting this stuff

      Written as if the individuals who are not supportive of the balkanization of Syria are the supporters of Israel

      This is over the top kind of stuff
      When the ruin of Syria benefits Israel and only the supporters of Israel don't want this known
      IN fact my pointing out the obvious benefits to Israel is what brought the troll here

      I am starting to wonder if Nureddin Sabir is non existent

    7. One more thing Freethinker

      redress. UK

      took some time to look through the site
      notice any torture victims not being mentioned?
      I will admit I could have missed it, but.....
      Torture in Africa, Tortue in Sri Lanka
      Torture in the ME

      No torture in America, Israel, UK??

      "The audio of our recent event on "Enforcing the Absolute Prohibition Against Torture" with Juan Méndez, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, is now online on the Chatham House's event page."

      Makes me think of, oh what is that group's name???
      the one that was helping bring guns and fighters into Syria via Libya
      YOu know Wissam Tarif oh yah, AVAAZ

      An obvious front for NATO war making
      Redress gives those same vibes off

    8. Well I'm sure you know who Chatham House are ;) (the CFR's daddy for the uninitiated)

      I had a quick trawl for any connection between and but there was nothing obvious. As you know its hard getting meaningful search results where there is a generic name such as redress involved. It's quite possible for 2 unrelated groups to want to adopt similar generic names. are obviously 'establishment'.

    9. Hey Freethinker the connection and it is tenuous was has a blog
      From: Nureddin Sabir
      Editor, Redress Information & Analysis
      19 September 2012
      Hit NS's profile
      Location in the UK.

      Of course this doesn't mean NS is linked to Redress. org
      It also doesn't mean that NS is not connected
      NS could be promoting an agenda using the name of a perceived credible group to hide behind

    10. Oh and Chatham House, yes, I know who and what they are
      From all my searching around one thing for sure Nureddin Sabir is highly suspicious and non credible

  2. The whole motley FSA crowd seem to be spilling out any kind of garbage that could get them any kind of support from any outside factions (GCC, Europe, other terrorist organisations, Israel, US, whatever), no matter how contradictory they are to other statements that they put out.

    A mixture of both chaos as method as well as an accurate reflection of how completely out of control they are - no plan but to keep the vast arrays of weapons & cash from outside supporters coming, while they keep flooding over the border leaving as much destruction in their wake as possible.

    Only the Turkish elites around Erdogan now seem to be completely onboard with these nutcases & seem to be the ones now 'leading from behind', as even the Saudi's & NATOite's elites have factions experiencing serious doubts (although it certainly hasn't effected the flood of weapons & support).

    The latest escalation from the Turks:

    Syrian passenger plane forced to land in Ankara

    Reading behind the lines, it looks like they are forcing down Syrian passenger planes to land in Turkey with military jets...

  3. Erdogan & Davutoglu have lost their tiny minds...

    The passenger jet that the Turks forced down was heading to Moscow -

    Syrian passenger plane flying from Moscow forced to land in Ankara

    My take is that this seems to be a response to Putin cancelling his visit, where they were likely going to try & pressure him.
    So instead they've come up with this???!

    These idiots have lost any relation they had to reality, no matter how twisted, & this is going to give a major impetuous to the factions that initially got onboard with the Syria 'adventure' & are getting increasingly uncomfortable with how it's turning out.

    Expect the the Russians to take their time, before coming down hard in ways that weren't anticipated.
    (although bye bye winter gas supplies is an obvious response...)

  4. Hey Ken M

    short on time
    but this thought

    "(although bye bye winter gas supplies is an obvious response...)"

    crossed my mind the other day

  5. Oh and I would agree this is about Putin's cancelling the visit and Iraq being so uppity as to issue a warning with Putin at Maliki's side

  6. Turkey does seem to have impeccable timing...

    An Iranian airplane was forced to land at an airport in southeast Turkey late on Tuesday on suspicion that it may have been carrying arms to Syria, officials at Diyarbakir airport said. A Turkish foreign ministry official in Ankara confirmed that the plane had been asked to make a "technical landing", but declined to say why. "The plane was coming from Iran and going to Syria. It was a cargo plane," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, told Reuters.
    He said the Turkish authorities had a legal right to search the plane and ask for the passports of people on board.The forced landing occurred on the same day Israeli naval commandos seized a cargo ship in the Mediterranean Sea carrying what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said were Iranian-supplied weapons intended for Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip."

    The plane, a civilian Ilyushin, en route from Tehran to Syria, was forced to land at Diyarbakir Airport in Turkey’s Southeast for an inspection on Saturday night upon orders from Turkish authorities. Last Tuesday another plane was similarly forced to land in Diyarbakır but departed the following day after a search squad trained in chemical, biological, radioactive and nuclear cargo found nothing illegal. Last week’s incident in Diyarbakır occurred on the same day that Israel announced it had seized a cargo ship loaded with weapons sent by Iran to Palestinian militants in Gaza, including sophisticated land-to-sea missiles that officials said could change the balance of power in the area.

  7. Does make you wonder about the Saudis not showing up at the most recent FSA confab...and then the box of Saudi ammunition is discovered...

    1. Hey anon 1:58

      Yes, it does get one wondering about the Saudi absence at the most recent FSA confab, not to mention the next meeting of the new and improved syrian national council is set to take place in Qatar?

      A falling out of sorts?

      "BBC News has uncovered evidence that appears to suggest that weapons intended for the Saudi military have been diverted to Syrian rebels.

      Three crates from an arms manufacturer - addressed to Saudi Arabia - have been seen in a base being used by rebel fighters in the city of Aleppo.

      How the small crates reached Aleppo is unknown, and the BBC was not allowed to film their contents.

      Saudi Arabia has refused to comment on the matter."

      curious and curiouser?

      An Iranian plane also? Thanks for that, I can't catch them all

    2. Penny
      Saudi government likes to do its things secretly, while Qatar is more showy.

    3. عشتار العراقية

      So you don't hold the opinion that SA is being outed in anyway, or scapegoated? Anything like that?

    4. KSA has been anything but silent on the issue of Syria. Almost as if they head a Hariri strike that vendetta. Arabiya has "leaked" documents every day. The Saudis have gone quiet since the Bandar was promoted? One thing you can say is KSA is definitely towing the Petrodollar line , publicly at least. They have perfected the we pump 10 but could do 12 mantra. Look at the price of oil post FOMC.Saudi is aggressively talking down the price of oil - punish Iran/Russia - Rinse wash repeat. Saudi was particularly quiet when those reports hit about a pipeline explosion and they have been quiet about the crackdown in the eastern provinces, as much as possible. Qatar another story with Centcom in country.

  8. Pipelines up in smoke..

    Azerbaijan and Iran...

  9. And Russia quit Nunn Lugar today

    1. ah all the timing, kicking out USAID last month, how much good it will do I don't know...
      And this,

      "Moscow plans to halt its participation in the Nunn-Lugar Program, in which the US funds Russia’s dismantling of its arsenal of nuclear weapons, a Russian media outlet reported.

      Russia no longer requires US aid and can continue with the program unassisted, Kommersant daily newspaper reported. In addition, Moscow explained the decision by the necessity to prevent secret data leak.

      The Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program was launched in the early 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union and aimed to dismantle unneeded nuclear weapons in Russia’s arsenal and eliminate outdated biological and chemical weapons."
      The agreement was extended twice – in 1999 and 2006 – and expires in May 2013

    2. so is US dismantling its nukes? is israel? or anyone?

    3. Russia says they will take care of it themselves

  10. anonymous 2:11 pm
    I was aware of that news, was busily trying to wrap my head around it? How could it play out?

    'The gas flow on a pipeline carrying Iranian natural gas to Turkey was halted due to an explosion in eastern Turkey'

    The PKK carried out the attacks.
    Some faction of the divergent Kurdish groups

    What was interesting was Russia had offered to fill the void.
    This leaves Russia in a very advantageous position
    With Turkey more dependent on Russian gas from Gazprom

    Iran it is expected will resume supplies to Turkey

    I don't think this is the first hit on pipelines inside Turkey, leaving Turkish people in a bad way, with winter coming

    The past tells us that Russia is not averse to shutting off gas.

    "Russia's gas giant Gazprom said it turned off the taps at 0700 GMT, when its contract to supply Ukraine ended.

    Ukraine insists it has paid off its debts to Gazprom, but Russia contests this"

    recalling this incident, which caught Germany up also

  11. A couple of interesting Syrian background articles:

    An interview with one of Syria's real domestic opposition leaders:
    Xalit Isa: "It Is Necessary to Promote a Political Solution to Help Syria"

    An interview with some of Syria's minority refugees that have headed to Russia:
    Three-time Refugees: Syrian Circassians back to Russia

    And for those wondering what the MeK has been up to apart from attacking Iranian diplomats in Manhattan:

    Free Syrian Army (FSA) Building Military Base for Mojahedin-e Khalq Organization (MKO)

    PS. suspect that the so-called 'Martyr Saddam Hussein battalions might be anti-kurdish death squads organised by the Turks as a 'pre-emptive' move to deal with the 'Kurdish problem'.

    Turkish Prime Minister issues threat to Syrian Kurds
    (Erdogan sure picking a lot of fights at the same time...)

    1. Concerning Martyr Saddam Hussein battalion, I think it is an internet stunt made by the Syrian government with the goals of:
      1- Preventing Iraqi Kurds from supporting FSA
      2- alienating Kuwaiti donors to the FSA.


    2. Concerning Martyr Saddam Hussein battalion
      Until KenM's mention I had never heard of this batallion

    3. First saw reports of this bunch a couple of weeks ago, & initially thought that they were former Sunni Awakening council militias joining up from Iraq:-

      Saddam Hussein’s battalion announces joining the Free Syrian Army - sept. 18th

      Martyr Saddam Hussein Battalion of the Free Syrian Army, Col. Osama Bin Salafi Bin

  12. Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah will deliver a televised speech Thursday addressing the unmanned plane which penetrated Israel’s airspace on Saturday, the situation in Syria, Lebanese and Iranian hostages held by the idiotic FSA. The speech is scheduled for 18:30 GMT and is normally covered live by pressTV with English translation.

  13. Marcus Papadopoulos ‏@DrMarcusP
    Paperwork routine: Turks force Syrian crew to sign 'emergency landing, no F-16s' statement - witnesses — RT … via @RT_com
    is this the behavior now of governments? the mad turks know their action is illegal and try to force others to do their will

  14. the russian bear swats a mad turkey

  15. Marcus Papadopoulos ‏@DrMarcusP
    TERRORISM IS TERRORISM IS TERRORISM: Syria: Militants kill eight civilians in bus attack via @sharethis
    Retweeted by Sarina. ﺳﺮﻳﻨﺎ


    Turkey said on Thursday it had stopped supplying Syria with electricity, but officials said the decision was due to problems with its neighbour's network and not a political decision to cut it off.

    Turkey, an outspoken critic of the Syrian government's 19-month crackdown of a popular uprising, has said it will not cut power and water to its southern neighbour, which could worsen a humanitarian crisis that has created more than 300,000 refugees.

    Energy Minister Taner Yildiz said Syria had decided to stop buying electricity from Turkey last week and that its neighbour could resume purchasing power when it can.

    Yasar Arslan, chief executive of Aksa Natural Gas, said his company's current contract with Syria was still in effect and that he expected power transmission to start again this month after the repair of the Syrian network was completed.

    Turkey has massed troops along its 900-km (560 mile) long-border in the past week after gunfire and shells from northern Syria hit Turkish territory, prompting it to respond in kind.

    "If Syria wants to start buying again, this door is open. There is no problem in Turkey's supply and production," Yildiz said.

    Turkey sold 1,170.6 gigawatt hours of electricity to Syria in 2011, according to the state transmission company, or about 20 percent of the Syria's needs.

    Did Turkey cut supplies?
    Or did Syria stop buying?

  17. I would not take the warning of Maliki seriously. Turkey shells north Iraqi region everyday, sending troops into Iraqi territories to kill members of the Turkish Kurdish labor party, amid silence of Maliki and the rest of his government. So it seems ironical, that he should ask Turkey not to intervene in Syria.


    1. Maliki is caught between the funded insurgency in the south and the US/majors backed Kurdistan.

    2. Thanks Ishtar for all your comments!!! :)
      You are likely able to offer us a perspective we cannot get from the western main stream media
      Much appreciated

    3. Thank you penny
      We have a proverb saying (He, whose hand is in water, is not like he whose hand is in fire) I mean I live in the middle of it.

    4. "He, whose hand is in water, is not like he whose hand is in fire'

      An excellent proverb! Short and to the point.
      I like it.
      I realize you do live in the middle of it. Via my statcounter, that is.

      Anytime you wish to clarify or contribute please do
      Here in fortress north america many of us tend to this eccentric view point do to our brainwashing/mind control
      I may get things wrong, Or I may get things right, when I try to decipher the msm, but I sincerely try to do my best in figuring out what is true and factual
      as opposed to spin, lies and mind control war propaganda

  18. Is the story about Jordan a head fake by the U.S. to distract from what's going on within Turkey:

    In gaming the military situation I didn't account for the damage Syria can presumably do to these bases. I don't know how that would play out exactly but it will certainly lead to a bigger war . . .

    I guess this is the game going on now . . . people on all sides figuring out where to attack.

    Surely Syria knows Turkey is arming and funding war against it. Turkey is therefore waging war against Syria. Turkey and its allies will not stop until they control Syria. They will kill whoever they have to kill to achieve their goals. Therefore Syria is fighting for its survival.

    I see no reason for Syria to wait. Same with Iran. Hard to tell what is going on but surely they have to be making the obvious calculation that war is inevitable and they stand the best chance of achieving any goals by attacking first.

    If they sit by doing nothing as they slowly get encircled and taken down by the gang of dogs then I wonder about the sincerity of their leadership. Maybe they are deciding getting taken down by dogs is better than fighting, but I don't see the benefit of that.

    Re the power and water . . . can't Syria take the water back by bombing every Turkish dam on the Tigris and Euphrates? Maybe Syria won't be able to generate enough power to make up for the loss Turkey is causing but can't they do the same to Turkey?

    Can't Syria target Turkey's gas lines and power generation? Maybe attacking the dams both damages Turkey's power generation and takes water back?

    Am I missing something? Would Syria do this if war is started? Would they be able to?

    1. WWM:

      "Surely Syria knows Turkey is arming and funding war against it. "

      Clearly Syria knows Turkey is sending fighters through,
      Syria has been fighting them off for over a year and a half now. That is abundantly clear.

      ". Therefore Syria is fighting for its survival."


      "If they sit by doing nothing as they slowly get encircled...."

      WWM Syrian soldiers have been fighting NATO mercs for a year and a half now it is not as if anyone is sitting around, by god people are dying there

      As for being encircled have you forgotten the map I had up of NATO/US bases in that area?
      Syria has been encircled for a long time now, while US/NATO expanded their global army
      Bases in Cyprus, Turkey, Iraq, the nuclear armed Israel
      Have I forgotten any??

    2. You're right they have been encircled for a while so maybe that wasn't the best word choice.

      Sure, they are using the military to fight the immediate threats. But they are being reactive instead of taking the initiative.

      I guess I'm just focusing on the wolves--the foreign armies like Turky or NATO air and sea power. The smaller attack dogs have already been sent in (NATO mercs). But the wolves have been howling from the woods for a while and we know they are simply using the dogs to confuse until they attack. Why not take the fight to the wolves?

      Why not have this war on Turkish soil rather than Syrian soil? If Syrian people will suffer regardless why not take the fight to real bullies? Seems elementary to me. Who in their right mind thinks Syria has a peaceful way out here? Or Iran?

      Turkey and NATO are bringing Syria down. Waging war against Syria. It simply makes sense that Syria would want to fight back against their real oppressors rather than the proxies being sent into their country. It's like playing whack a mole instead of dealing with the greater mole infestation problem--to mix many metaphors here.

    3. Penny
      Syria is also encircled by US bases in Jordan, Saudi Arabia. In Jordan there is King Abdulla II Special Operations Training Center, run by US major general, financed by USA, Britain, Saudi Arabia. You may find information about it here:

      Also, you may know that Iran itself is encircled by US bases in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan, Turkey, Hormuz strait , Armenia,Turkmenistan, and Azerbaijan.

    4. I figured off the top of my head , there must have been some I forgot.

      RE: Iran
      I had a map up of just how encircled Iran, and it was a real eye opener

      Will check the link and thanks

  19. Erdogan talking tough against Syria, but after two years of the attack on Turkish ship Mavi Marmara by Israeli commandos in international waters he did nothing.
    He couldn't even get an apology from Israeli leaders who ordered the operation in late May of 2010 killing 8 Turks, one is a US citizen.
    Erdogan putting on a face also that he's the champion of the Palestinian cause.
    How can he be when he's invloved in a war against Syria which at the end benefits Israel ?!!.
    The Saudis realized after Saddam was gone that they need another big Sunni Muslim country in the area to stand up to Iran, which Saudis and Gulf leader considers the top on their list enemy.
    To do that, they used their Jihadists supported by Turkey to wage this war.
    Saudis and Gulf leader can only win by dividing Mulsims to Sunnis and Shiates.It's their only survivability element.
    They used it against Iran under Saddam in a war between Iraq and Iran that lasted 8 years, and now they are using it under Erdogan against Syria.
    The Saudis are willing to write the checks,provide the necessary war supplies, and fill the airwaves with religious preachers to sell the war.
    And what makes Turkey so attractive to Saudis and Western leaders? it's a Sunni NATO Muslim country which fits the criteria very well.
    All what it takes now just a flase flag to ignite the powder keg of the whole Middle East.

    1. Anonymous 11:35 am

      "Erdogan talking tough against Syria, but after two years of the attack on Turkish ship Mavi Marmara by Israeli commandos in international waters he did nothing"

      I have beaten that drum, till I tore through the skins on top, or whatever the top of a drum actually is.

      most recently in this post

      before that here

      in that post is a link back to an earlier piece and there likely is even more posts on Israel doing the targeted killings that Erdogan wanted done

      "Erdogan putting on a face also that he's the champion of the Palestinian cause.
      How can he be when he's invloved in a war against Syria which at the end benefits Israel ?!!.

      I hear ya, I hear ya
      It is a ruse, Erdogan is serving Israeli interests as much as anyone elses, the only interests he is not serving are those of the Turkish people who don't want war

    — From the edge of a steep mountain overlooking a desert compound built into an old rock quarry, machine gunfire echoes just outside hangars where U.S. special operations forces are training Jordanian commandos.

    Oh My God! Training Jordan commandos to operate machine guns inside hangars! A whole new brand of warfare -- inside-the-hangar machine-gunning! They didn't know how to push down that butterfly trigger and fire the machine gun inside a hangar before!

    That's a snark. I really think we take this hyperventilating about various incidents, and they're no more than that, just a little too far. Most of it ain't worth diddly.

    1. Don
      as I said at MoA the Jordan story is a non story for me
      I have covered it as early as 2011
      I am of the opinion that US special forces were on the ground in Jordan prior to the first 'protests' breaking out in Daara
      Which is a stones throw from the Jordan border, coincidence, I think not.
      That was also not a protest it was an armed confrontation

      "That's a snark."

      I don't get that

      'I really think we take this hyperventilating about various incidents, and they're no more than that, just a little too far. Most of it ain't worth diddly.'

      Do you think these varying incidents are not "worth diddly" to the Syrian people?
      I had a regular Syrian here for months, I saved everyone of his contributions
      Since the attack on Aleppo I have not heard from him at all
      I still wonder if he is alive or dead
      He spent time here, made videos for us all and was informative, polite and quite open with all here
      I don't think he would consider the destruction of his home, "diddly"

    2. Sorry, I mentioned earlier about the special operations training center, not heeding that you had already written about it before.

    3. عشتار العراقية

      no apology necessary.
      I think it is worth noting that Special Ops are in Jordan, which was why I did in 2011.
      It has to to be stressed that this is not new or something that has just happened
      Only to wonder at why the msm is giving this old news such mass coverage at this time???

  21. Turkey & the other regime-change factions (GCC/NATO) seem to be going all out in a bid to try & scare off support that is gathering for Syria and against the forced regime-change agenda..

    Escalation on all fronts as the various stories & rationale's fall apart, and the cover that the more 'moderate' factions support provided are now dissappearing, as most look to distance themselves from responsibility in what is occuring.

    This level of desperate effort make the players look very naked, & even the best efforts of the massive MSM/NGO/Lobbying/Astroturf industry can only look to blur the issues & try to distract the opposition that is gathering against them.

    Hardly anyone is buying their b*llsh*t stories, & in comments across the world on the stories supporting the forced regime-change meme, the positive comments seem down to obvious astroturfers or idealogues, & even these are beginning to stink of desperation. Stories & opposition against the regime-change agenda is now appearing regularly in what were previously bastions of support.
    People everywhere are sick of them.

    And while there is an astonishing level of force organised by some of the most powerful players on the planet against them, if Syria can hold out over the next few months & NATO intervention is blocked, the whole thing falls apart.

    They've used up every means at their disposal to force regime-change without a direct military invasion, & if they haven't been able to finesse military intervention within the next month, the opposition on a world scale crystalises & the backlash starts.

    Expect the stink of desperation & pace of provocations to increase as we are now in the final phase of this front, one way or another.

    1. Hi KenM

      sad to say, it is not "if"
      It is just when
      At one time I was of the mind it would be Syria alone
      However I have long changed my mind on that and see this as
      Syria, Iran Lebanon like dominoes.
      NATO and allies such as Turkey
      Israel may invade Egypt they will surely clean out Gaza and Lebanon
      I see the Palestinians, those that survive shipped to Jordan
      I want to be wrong, but am afraid it is going to get ugly.
      Most of the world will be surprised
      My hope is that it does not get as bad as I am afraid is possible

    2. Started writing a rough picture of my current view on some of this ground, & got a little carried away. Anyway :
      Agree that this is the general thrust of most of our current neo-con/liberal 'elite' & their institutional vehicles, & the Brookings institute lays out the plan pretty clearly.
      But inspite of the vast power they've accumulated, they have also distanced themselves almost completely from reality & are using up their accumulated credit with the real world at an astonishing rate.

      And while these 'elite' vehicles are good at looting, corruption and spreading chaos & destruction, you've got to be able to build something afterwards, no matter how twisted or distorted, and they have lost the capacity to even manage that.

      Hundreds of billions of dollars spent in Iraq & Afghanistan in construction contracts, & the only effective thing actually built was the military bases. They are just not capable of managing to put together even the most basic functioning frameworks no matter how necessary it is to the neo-liberal order.

      They can only keep looting real assets if there is some infrastructure & basic competence to manage the basic services that they need to keep operating;
      They can only keep expanding if they are not bogged down continually in dealing with the mess that they created in the last expansion ;
      And when every attempt they make to 'fix' the basics so that they can expand onwards, not just make things worse, but visibly & disastrously worse, the only way they can keep going is if they keep increasing the momentum into somewhere new, & they are fast running out of places.

      Libya was likely the last 'easy' place on the planet - vast resources & cash, little protection and easy access.
      The 'easy' job is now an increasingly visible nightmare, with even the Cyrenaica oil sector, the only success story that they've managed (mostly by not blowing it up), likely to run into serious problems.
      Security is a nightmare, government's a farce, services in much of the country are non-existent.
      They can't make this a long-term base to expand from without managing the basics, and they are just not capable. The vast sums of money seized from the Libyan people will just be poured into a black hole of incompetence, along with a fair amount of corporate capital.

    3. From above:
      And while these & other actions are devastating to the people that they happen to, the 'elite' vehicles are simply not winning anything tangible in the real world these days, while leaving themselves more & more exposed.

      The chaos, rubble & debt that they once left behind in their wake is now what most of their 'portfolios' consist of, & these are not good building blocks to expand from.

      They've also already looted or twisted most of the competent management facilities in the West in their moves to consolidate power, with the shells left behind mostly support vehicles for lobbying activity. To move into new markets or manage what they already have they just don't have the expertise left.
      Bottom of the barrel looting & tax-power money through the corrupt government revolving door is all that they are really capable of in the real world, with most of their 'productive' activities consisting of trading games with 'financial products' & positioning in 'elite' vehicles.

      There is ofcourse our vast, enormously expensive western military machine, whose higher echelons & planning capabilities now resemble much of the neoliberal corporate world, although they can still manage limited support infrastructure much better (even if they are enormously expensive & wasteful in doing so).

      It is also military machine whose power depends largely on regular soldiers, who also happen to be Ron Paul's largest campaign supporters by a large margin , demonstrating pretty clearly what their long-term feelings are of being an 'elite' enforcers.
      End of the day, most regular military are a proud bunch, & they have little respect for the corporate world & think-tank 'experts'.

      Agree that things don't look good for the Palestinians, as the Israeli's have made little secret of their plans to ethnically cleanse the region & destroy most of Lebanon's infrastructure;
      However what they would ultimately win from this is constant low-level warfare, massive security costs, heavy casualties, enormous population migration of Israeli's away from the violence, & the likely longterm destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.


      As soon as the momentum starts to falter for the whole neo-con/liberal movement, the backlash starts, & the momentum once it gets going will be savage in much of the world.

    4. That's a brilliant comment right there.

    5. The game changer in ME/Israel politics took place yesterday. Nasrallah's announcement that it was their drone that flew undetected for 32 mins in Israel airspace. Especially his repeat of the drone flew very near Dimona Israel nuclear establishment and this was not their most sophisticated drone. Israel can only survive when it has the settler population to back Zionist expansion.

      Now that their skies can be penetrated watch the rats start to leave the SLC. Most of the settlers are dual nationals. One person the Israelis trust most is Nasrallah. So when he tells them they have seen nothing yet this is too scare the bullies who now have met their match.

      His speech was very concise and to the point. He told the FSA to stop threatening Hez and just get on if they would like a battle. Iran, Syria have just bought some extra time.

    6. I think the Samson option so often hyped ha now turned into a Delilah. The Iranian's now have the coordinates and aerial imagery of the DIMONA establishment. Here is a good authoritive article of Israel's DIMONA.

    7. Hey Ken
      I will second LVB's observation and say that is a great comment and clearly you have spent some time thinking about the entire scenario of war and fall out from war.

      Agree the elites are finding themselves more exposed and I like to think people such as you, me, lvb, hans, freethinker, brian, Ishtar from Egypt and while Tozz was here, Tozz, Felix and all other contributors, readers etc
      are helping to expose these miserable excuses for humanity for what they are psycopaths every last one of them, who minimally should be shunned and locked away till the end of their days
      They should not be wielding any power, nor should they be respected by us

    8. Oh and hans I saw that about admitting to the drone...
      can you expand on what or why you think this a game changer?
      Reading your comment, this is not a topic I know much of.
      "Syria have just bought some extra time."

      What makes you think that?

  22. Excellent piece of reporting of the Moscow-Syria flight forced down from The Telegraph of all places...

    'No Russian weapons' on board Syrian plane detained in Turkey

    1. WOW

      from the article

      "Turkey is allowing its own borders to be used for shipments of weapons to the opposition from Saudi Arabia and Qatar"

      a fleeting glimpse of truth from the telegraph

  23. Penny: You should change the title to: "Penny For My Thoughts" since other thoughts are unwelcome.

    1. What?
      Are your comments here?
      Clearly they are so what is the point your making?

    2. I am really perplexed Don?
      I went and checked the spam folder and I am flummoxed?