Monday, October 22, 2018

Khashoggi "Body Double"? Or not? Fiance Fabrication

How to explain the fact that a man resembling Khashoggi was caught on CCTV after his alleged murder?

While at the same time the Saudi's say "we don't know where the body is"??

Claim a body double was used! Of course!  

This news originates with CNN....

Below is the alleged body double of Khashoggi walking in Instanbul after we're all supposed to believe the real Khashoggi was killed

 "CCTV images have emerged showing a Saudi intelligence officer dressed in a fake beard and Jamal Khashoggi's clothes and glasses on the day the journalist disappeared"

Is this really a "Saudi intelligence" officer? How can one tell by that image?

How do they know it's a "fake beard"?

I have so much trouble with narratives such as this............

We're told this is Jamal Khashoggi outside of the embassy
Was that Jamal Khashoggi outside of the embassy?
How do we know a the body double did not enter the embassy?
And the real Jamal Khashoggi was pictured walking down the street on CCTV after his alleged killing? 
I'm sure not taking the always obfuscating media's word at face value! 

Particularly when it's reported the Saudi's say... We don't know where the body is! 

"Adel al-Jubeir told Fox News those responsible for “this huge and grave mistake” would be held accountable.

He insisted Saudi officials did not know the whereabouts of Mr Khashoggi’s remains."

The fiance? Whose tale I never believed.. 

Here's another change in her story from immediately after Jamal Khashoggi did not exit the embassy..

CNN
Cengiz, who was waiting outside the consulate when Khashoggi entered the building, had not previously accepted that he had died. Khashoggi had gone to the consulate on October 2 to conduct paperwork that would allow for the two of them to be married. 
In the event that he did not emerge, Khashoggi had told Cengiz to call his friend Turan Kislakci, the head of the Turkish Arab Media Association.

I'll repeat:
In the event that he did not emerge, Khashoggi had told Cengiz to call his friend Turan Kislakci, the head of the Turkish Arab Media Association.

BBC reporting October 7th/18- when everything should be fresh in the fiance's mind

"Hatice said he left the phone with her and told her to call an adviser to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan if he did not return."
 Repeating:
"Hatice said he left the phone with her and told her to call an adviser to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan if he did not return."
Well, which was it? Erdogan adviser or the head of the Turkish Arab Media Association?
Who did she first call when Khashoggi  did not re-appear???

 Notice that her earlier claim of Khashoggi telling her to call an adviser to Erdogan connects this incident in the mind of the readers immediately to the Turkish government? 
Though the later reporting has her calling a media association when Khashoggi did not re- appear (allegedly) I tend to believe that she called the head of the media association to get the 'ball rolling'.
"I do not know if Jamal is inside. I want to know where Jamal is. Did they detain him? Did they kidnap him? Is he imprisoned?" the visibly tired Cengiz told CNN's Jomana Karadsheh outside the consulate, a day after his disappearance. At the time, she asked media outlets not to name her.
Why did she initially ask media outlets to not name her? Had she not been given her stage name? I don't know. But that's as possible as all the other claims were told to believe.

Recalling Khashoggi's son didn't even know who she was. And the family lawyer denounced her as well...........

Yet, another news article touching on the fiance being an unknown to the family 
Following a meeting held by the Khashoggi family, a prominent clan in Saudi Arabia, in Jeddah on Sunday, its legal advisor, Motasem Khashoggi told Al Arabiya English that the family is regularly in touch with the Saudi government regarding the case of Saudi citizen Jamal Khashoggi who has disappeared in Turkey.
He clarified that the woman who is called “Khadijah” who is promoting herself as Jamal's fiancé, is not known by the family and she is not his fiancé.We do not know her, we do not know from where she came and she is not connected to the family, and her statements and presence might be to push her own agenda,” he said.

Psychological operation. Through and through. 

9 comments:

  1. NYT infers King incapacitated as long rumored. Nayef still house arrest and bank accounts drained over the weekend?

    legacy Saudi
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-jamal-khashoggi.html

    Jubeir in the Iran backed Israeli and saudi plot 2011

    U.S. authorities broke up an alleged plot to bomb the Israeli and Saudi Arabian embassies in Washington and assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States, court documents and a U.S. official said Tuesday.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_alleged_Iran_assassination_plot

    Israel stands to lose MBS

    https://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/20/exiled-abu-dhabi-mohammed-dahlan-dreams-gaza-310349.html
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/saudi-official-we-wont-cooperate-with-israel-as-long-as-palestine-is-occupied/?fb_comment_id=922958017739454_923039681064621
    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/explosion-reported-near-convoy-carrying-palestinian-pm-on-gaza-visit-1.5904657
    https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmgg8w/saudi-arabia-wants-to-build-a-moat-around-qatar

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Either MBS is going to dig in or there's going to be that Atlantacists desired realignment of the Saudi government..

      http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-khashoggi-incident-forcing-regime.html

      " Regardless of how the mystery ends, the Khashoggi affair is likely to have profound repercussions in Saudi-Western relations and perhaps inside Saudi Arabia itself. King Salman and family elders may realize that the Kingdom’s emergence from years of conservative and cautious foreign policies into a more aggressive stance inside and outside their borders may have gone too far. The logical conclusion to that line of thought would be another realignment of their top leadership.

      Failing that, the pressure, particularly from the US Congress, is not likely to let up."

      The NYT's article gives me the impression the realignment of leadership is desired- Just fretting over who can do it?

      Delete
  2. The Cengiz-story - waiting before the consulate till after midnight or waiting for three(!) hours and than Mrs. Cengiz getting worried now has a third version: "Khashoggi’s fiancée, after waiting several hours, raised the alarm as Khashoggi had instructed her to do should he not reemerge after two hours" (https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/10/12/killing-saudi-journalist-khashoggi-could-spell-end-for-mohammad-bin-salman.html) .

    For the MbS-government it was obviously a habit to use embassies/consulates for actions against dissidents: "RIYADH TRIED TO ‘TRAP’ US IN OVERSEAS EMBASSIES: SAUDI DISSIDENTS" - https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/10/22/577772/Saudi-exiles-Jamal-Khashoggi-Mohammed-bin-Salman-trap

    So I wonder, why Khashoggi - who was obviously worried to enter the consulate - did not authorize an attorney or a notary public to pick up the divorce papers at the consulate. You don't need to appear 'in personam' in order to pick up some official papers.
    Khashoggi then would have only have to pay the bill of the attorney/notary public (probably not more than 100 $ - the Lira has even fallen dramatically some weeks ago) and sign the "warrant" or "full power" that the secretary in the attorney's/notary's office just had typed
    If then the attorney/notary public returned from the consulate with the papers - ok. If they returned without the papers and told Khashoggi, that the consulate's people want him to show up personally to pick up the papers - then Khashoggi had known for sure that he never ever should enter the consulate.

    J

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    1. Hi J

      The fiance is not credible in the least
      And according to the fiance Jamal was not concerned about entering the consulate...

      Delete
    2. Hi Penny!
      "And according to the fiance Jamal was not concerned about entering the consulate..."

      …well. well, I wouldn't put it that way. It's more complex: Let's look at the Strategic Culture article I cited above: "Khashoggi’s fiancée, after waiting several hours, raised the alarm as Khashoggi had instructed her to do should he not reemerge after two hours"
      That certainly doesn't sound like Khashoggi was not worried. I mean, Penny, when was the last time Your husband "instructed" You to "raise() the alarm …should he not reemerge after two hours"?
      Or the BBC article (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45812399):
      "He reportedly told friends that he had been treated "very warmly" on his first visit and reassured them that he would not face any problems.
      Despite this, he gave his Turkish fiancée Hatice Cengiz two mobile phones and told her to call an adviser to President Recep Tayyip Erdogan if he did not come back out.
      "
      Yes, the first sentence seems to confirm Your side, Penny. But the second sentence destroys this impression.
      I mean, Penny, when was the last time You, let's say, entered a consulate of the USA in Canada and then gave two phones to Your husband and told him "to call an advisor to (Justin Trudeau) if (You) did not come back out? And also this: You also "reassure() (Your husband) that (You) would not face any problems". Would your husband be worried? Would he think You were worried?

      The point is - and insofar you are right, Penny - that we are told again and again that Khashoggi wasn't worried at all. Especially the WaPo article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/10/09/please-president-trump-shed-light-on-my-fiances-disappearance/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.22b3cbd0641c
      ) goes at length with that: "Jamal was hardly concerned ahead of his second visit. He walked into the consulate of Saudi Arabia, his native country, without doubting he would be safe there. After seeing how relaxed he was, I waited patiently and full of hope".

      But the facts tell us something else. The question is: Why are they trying to hammer in our head that (shown by facts) a highly anxious Khashoggi wasn't worried at all?
      And I think the answer is, that if we had been told Khashoggi was extremely worried by the idea he had to enter the consulate, we all would ask: 'Why then went he in there in the first place?'

      Above I showed one way Khashoggi could have avoided any danger.
      Another way would have been that on his first visit to the consulate he could have told the people there to send the divorce papers to his apartment/Hotel, address so-and-so. This by Turkish post office or by commercial messenger-service (he Khashoggi would have to pay the messenger, so the consulate would have no costs). Also even on the day of his appointment in the consulate Khashoggi could have rang up the consulate and could have suggested to send the papers by mail or messenger-service, saying, that he, Khashoggi, was hindered to appear personally because something happened.

      There would have no reason for the consulate people to deny this. Papers that confirm a man is definitely divorced from his first wife are not valuable papers you wouldn't dare to send with a messenger-service. No one else can use them. If they get lost they could have been produced a second time. Even more: To the Saudis in the consulate these papers where a 'western whim' only anyway. Not needed in Saudi Arabia where a man can marry as many women as he liked - and no one cares if a man marries a woman because he divorced from his first wife or if he marries a second wife (additionally).

      J

      Delete
  3. J from the article you left

    "We must also consider that Riyadh planned to blame Turkey for the disappearance of the journalist, stating that, having come out from the embassy, ​​the disappearance was the fault of Turkey.

    It is not surprising, therefore, that Erdogan has insisted
    that "the burden of demonstrating how Khashoggi is still alive belongs to Saudi Arabia."


    we really do have to consider the fact that Saudi Arabia or someone else might have tried to blame Turkey for Khashoggi's disappearance- explaining Turkey's proactive media moves

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. YEMEN
      https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/aramroston/mercenaries-assassination-us-yemen-uae-spear-golan-dahlan

      GAZA
      https://www.rt.com/news/441793-israel-tanks-gaza-border/
      https://english.palinfo.com/news/2018/10/16/Lieberman-calls-for-strong-blow-against-Hamas

      Delete
  4. Hi Penny, This looks right up your alley of expertise. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/07/03/its-time-to-divide-syria/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97b33d7ed9d2 Something to chew on no?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hi Penny!
    There is a video with Bhadrakumar (from 5 days ago), who talks about the political and strategic consequences of the Khashoggi case:
    https://youtu.be/kfgsYUiUEIg .

    What I think is: In Middle East the losers will be the PKK, the USA (and with the USA ISIS - but not the Erdogan-supported terrorists like "FSA"), Israel (and with Israel: Trump and his 'ZionNazi' Kushner) and also France and Great Britain (and with them the disgusting German Merkel-government).
    Winner will be Turkey, Qatar, Iran (also the brave Hisbollah), and, yes, Saudi-Arabia (and with Saudi-Arabia: Russia).
    What will happen? Let's first take a look at the inner(!) Saudi Arabia: Saudi Arabia is a tribal society. And although I know little about inner Saudi Arabia, I know a thing or two about tribal societies: With total despite they look at western 'Democracies' where things are decided by majority vote or even crucial vote. Tribal Societies have the principle of "consensus". If there is a discussion they will filibuster - even for weeks - until finally there is a consensus.
    MbS hurt this principle brutally by incarcerating - even torturing - people of the ruling tribal class. And by stealing billions of $$ from them. MbS will loose his job - not because of Khashoggi, but because the Khashoggi case is a 'trigger' for inner Saudi Arabia to get rid of MbS.

    The USA (not the US-people, but this 'oligarch regime of Washington') already lost when this (stupid) MbS went into the direction of abandoning the Petrodollar and in the direction of cooperating with Russia (see Bhadrakumars https://indianpunchline.com/saudi-arabia-gets-a-friend-in-need-russia/ ).
    This is why Trump threatened the Saudis some weeks ago, that without US-support Saudi Arabia would "collapse within two weeks". And this is why the "deep state" (US-oligarchs) wants to get rid of MbS.

    But this is also the reason why the US-regime lost total control of Saudi Arabia. Even a new
    government of Saudi Arabia will not be controlled by the US-oligarchs. This is why Trump turned back his 'favour' to Turkey. when this pastor was released. Trump said: “This is a tremendous step towards having the kind of relationship (with Turkey) which can be a great relationship. We feel much differently about Turkey today than we did yesterday. And I think we have a chance of really becoming much closer to Turkey and maybe having a very, very good relationship”.

    J

    ReplyDelete

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