Friday, May 22, 2009

Back to Laurel Canyon- Owsley and Timothy Leary

Someone who posted anonymously left an interesting comment in an older Dave McGowan post.

"Dave McGowan, Laurel Canyon, Mind Control via MK U...":

"Owsley came from, guess what, a wealthy, old politically powerful American family. He was taught how to cook by a, now famous, former Dow chemical employee who'd previously been in the Navy. What's interesting is that there was, apparently, also the daughter of the head of the chemical company that was also being taught how to do these complicated sequences at the same time (odd too how she never seems to get any press, don't you think ?). And, remember, the Greatful Dead we're previously called "The Warlocks." I don't think this makes psychedelics suspect, only the varying modes of application. But, right now, they want to demonize them for obvious reasons ! They're de-conditioning agents, for god's sake ! Check out "Acid Dreams" (Amis); "Storming Heaven" (Stevens); "The Dead"-book one (Harrison); "Boo-Hoo Bible" ; Bruce Eisner's Islands newsletter has some interesting interviews with Owsley."

A very intersting comment. I wish this person would have left the name of the woman who was taught to 'cook' the same as Owsley. That would have been interesting.

I agree that none of this is MKultra/mind control stuff is really about the LSD, except as the method to the means. The means being a way to control your thoughts.

I am assuming that by claiming LSD is a de-conditioning agent, the commenter means that LSD, was not useful as means to control or suppress people, but a way instead to open there eyes and make them less susceptible to societal conditioning. It is possible, but I don't know.
I did check out some of the subjects that anonymous poster left.

I found this interesting, an interview conducted between a writer named Bruce Eisner( High Times) and Owsley himself.

Interview with an Alchemist: Bear Owsley Interview

The actual interview was conducted by telephone. Bear now lives with his third wife on a homesteaded piece of land off the energy grid somewhere in Queensland, Australia.This is the first publication of the approved Owsley edit of the interview that was conducted on May 17, 1998.

They talk internet, government, childrens tv programming (they don't call it programming for nothing) What interested me was what he said about Timothy Leary, who is so often presented to society as the Grandfather of the Psychedelic movement, when he really was no such thing.
B: Bruce Eisner
O: Owsley

B: Getting back to the idea of people picking up these old imprints and being stuck with them. I was listening to a tape that Tim Leary did back in 1981 or ‘82 at Esalen, called “The Power of Imprinting.” This was back when he was on his twenty-four circuit model, before he got into virtual reality and computers and so forth.

O: Well, not really, he never really got into the computer movement. He was always on the periphery of it, but he was always at least a couple of years behind the curve.

B: Oh, I know.

O: You do know that?

B: I know very very well, because I was very close with him.

O: Why didn’t you tell him that, because I tried to . . .

B: Oh, I tried to push it. I was the only one who ever actually surfed him around the net, this was four months before he died. He had a Mac set-up with an ISDN, and I sat down and surfed him around, and then he ordered everybody in the house to go up and get his web site up to speed!

O: I’ll tell you a little story here, about Tim. I went down to see him one time in LA, I’d tried for years to just get him to open up to me and hang out, so that I could figure out who he was. He was always kind of a mystery.

B: I know what you mean.

O: Talking to him was very much like dealing with a mask of some sort. I showed up in town one day and called him up, and said, ”Let’s get together and go somewhere, let’s go have dinner, talk, hang out a bit.” “No, no I’m really busy, I’m doing this thing.” “Well, what are you doing?” “I’ve got these guys here and we’re designing a game. This game is going to be fantastic, incredible, everybody’s going to love this thing, it’s going to, . . . ” etc. So I go over to his place, I walk in, and he has a program up on the screen of his computer that looks sort of like one of those very early interactive games— everything’s text. And I said, “Tim, people don’t play these kind of games anymore. A couple of years ago, people were playing these kind of games, but everything now is graphics. It’s all graphics, it’s action, it’s incredible, it’s like driving a simulator. You’re not going to get people to play a text-based game anymore.” I could not get through to him. And he was just too busy to go and be a friend and hang out with somebody and talk about real things.

B: Well, that changed a lot after Barbara left him, then he became much more available.

O: Did he? Well, you know, then he fell into decline, and got into that endgame there. I got an email letter from a fellow who wanted me to contribute a tribute to a collection he was assembling. I said (to him): “Look, there’s got to be plenty of people who will write nice things about Tim Leary, I don’t think you want to hear what I have to say.” Well, it seems he did, and he kept after me. Each time I’d get a little more explicit, but he just kept coming back. I said, basically, what it boiled down to was that I didn’t think that Tim Leary was a hero. Not a hero to me, anyway. In fact, if I were going to be real precise about what I think, I think Tim Leary was probably the worst thing that ever happened to the psychedelic movement. He made everything difficult for all of us; he wouldn’t listen to any of us who tried to tell him to back off a bit. He was most probably primarily responsible for all the draconian laws we have today on the use of psychedelics and other mind-altering things. I said that as far as I was concerned, I never felt Tim Leary showed me who he was. He seemed to be always playing some role or game or something, or hiding behind some mask, and I just didn’t know who he was. So how can I tell you who he was? He never let me know who he was. Basically, I didn’t want to speak badly to the guy, because I always liked him. I always tried real hard to find some route so that I could actually have a heart-to-heart communication with him.

Timothy Leary, the worst thing that ever happened to the psychedelic movement, responsible for all the draconian laws we have today. Interesting?

For all the Laurel Canyon Fans: For What It's Worth?
Hey, hey it's a Monkee doing the intro!


  1. Interesting.

    I've always enjoyed psychedelics, though certainly prefer shrooms over LSD.

    I would agree that they have an amazing way of opening the mind and can be very spiritual events.

    They have gotten a bad wrap, and I can sort of see why leary didn't help this at all - in fact made it worse.

    Thanks for the post. Kind of wish I had some shroom now, the weather being nice and all it would be a lovely trip to enjoy the great outdoors with a head full of psyllicibin!!


    Buffer the old Hippy

  2. Sorry for this off topic post, but have you listened to the Norman Dodd interview on my blog? I think you would really like it - it's more of Doug's line of research but fascinating nonetheless!!

    (again sorry for the hijack)

  3. no, I haven't watched it yet, I have been having fun with Lee at maggies,


  4. what is interesting is Owsley's comment with regard to Timothy Leary being the reason for draconian laws.

    Here is a linkto an exchange between Ted Kennedy and Timothy Leary at a Senate Hearing.
    You can read the entire article there, I am going to put the relevant exchange

    Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts: "What is it in the quality that you are frightened about?"

    Dr. Leary: "We do not want amateur or black-market sale or distribution of LSD."

    Senator Kennedy: "Why not?"

    Dr. Leary: "Or the barbiturates or liquor. When you buy a bottle of liquor-"

    Senator Kennedy: "This is not responsive. As to LSD, why do you not want it?"

    Dr. Leary: "On possession?"

    Senator Kennedy: "Why do you not want the indiscriminate manufacture and distribution? Is it because it is dangerous?"

    Dr. Leary: "Because you do not know what you are getting..."

    The author of this piece claims this is a "warning from leary" and despite this alleged warning, LSD was make illegal.

    I read this totally differently.
    I read this as leary asking for it to become illegal.
    Because as it was being distributed in an indiscriminate fashion by various manufacturers it was dangerous. That is exactly what Leary is saying.
    Therefore, I get Owsley's opinion

  5. Hi there...anon. here. Aaahh, yes. The NAME of the female understudy (although, now, I'm not quite sure WHY it's important). I'm sort of almost giving it to you, in a way. (remember the famous photo from the Haight with the caption: "Better living through chemistry" ?) Depends where you're located, I suppose. I didn't think this odd, historical 60's tangent interested anybody anymore. We should have a contest as to who gets to her name first. This was a pet project of mine for a while and I have a good memory so ask a-way. What is it that you want to know about ? More references that you wouldn't run into for a thousand years ? How old are you, Penny ? And where have you been dwelling just so I can taylor the answers accordingly....

  6. I may have stumbled on her name

    Melissa Cargill?

    Am I right?

    I looked for a link between her and the Cargill Clan.

    no such luck on that.

    Though weirdly the Cargill intemarry with another family, gotta keep all in the family I guess.
    which I find strange.
    You inspired me to write two entire pieces, lol, drove me bonkers.

    I look at this more through the eyes of the mkultra experiments.
    I don't get that you are coming from this angle.
    so dish?

  7. I'm not presently in possession of her name but I could probably find out. Why do you want to know ? What led you to be interested in this stuff anyway ? It's a dark, tangled web....

  8. What got me on this path, and a number of other who post read here, was Dave McGowan and the Laurel Canyon stuff. Have you read any of it at all?

    The series is called "Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation"

    you can find it here:

    I am a fan of McGowan, having read all of his books. He looks at things in a most interesting way.

    I have six chapters of his book- Programmed to Kill- linked in the side bar. That was a tough read, really tough, it gave me nightmares.

    Is it more of a dark tangled web then McGowans stuff?

    If so, that will make it all the more interesting!

  9. So maybe that radio show he's on is what led you to read his book ? You seem more curious/tittilated by this stuff than impelled by any personal affiliation/experiences.

  10. Sure the radio show, his books and his own postings on his website are what piqued my interest.

    Personal affiliation or experiences?
    With anyone or anything '60's?
    Only through the media.
    that is it.

    And I have not ever been a Grateful Dead fan.

  11. Hhmmm. Ok. Call me Roger. I thought you said you were into the MK-ul thing (O',yeah....and power lineages..) ?'re not a former Dead attendee ! Now I understand why you're not quite flowing with this....See,that's why I was asking about some of your background elements...locale, age, interests. But I knew you'd be paranoid about it. I seem to remember some piece about Phil Lesh being the covert musical baddie in the mix (the only one who went to music school). And Jerry, of course, was compromised quite early. Aheeeem. Interesting that it was a daughter of a wealthy oil family who was the one that took me to my first of four shows that I'd gone to. She was trying to get rid of me 'cause I was asking too many impudent questions for her 17 year old private school educated mind...

  12. Hey Roger!
    Yeah, I find the mkultra stuff fascinating, actually amazing downright amazing when one things what alleged democratic governments have got away with against their own allegedly free citizenry.

    Makes one rethink democracy and freedom.

    Jerry was compromised quite early?
    That is interesting. I am unsure what you mean exactly by that, I can jump to a bunch of conclusions, but that would be silly.

    Were you a Grateful dead follower?
    And who was the daughter of the oil tycoon?
    Why was she trying to get rid of you?
    Asking to many questions!

    There are never to many questions, and hardly enough decent answers!
    I will assume you actually lived the '60's real time vs through the time-life musical series??

  13. I say you're in your late 30's, mid-40's Am I close ? You've never seen Gimme Shelter, the movie ? Could be in some small town...midwest, perhaps. don't even know the basics...Tis disheartening. Ok. Question. How did Jerry die, for instance ? As to the questions at the bottom of your last mail: 1. No, not really (Notice I already answered in previous mail) 2)Why ? 3) Amazing. I just told you why. Are you possibly bed-ridden or house-bound for some reason (or maybe on medication) ? 4) I was a little too young at the time but definitely had some involvement and exposure since I was living near a major metropolitan area where there was a lot of interest and activity in this stuff.

  14. not bed-ridden or on medication
    not from the mid-west
    and I have seen Gimme Shelter the movie, countless times.....
    can't tell you a thing about the grateful dead, other then some rudimentary stuff, never liked them, never followed them.
    At all.
    Now the stones, differnt story, saw them, own like every disc, gimme shelter and the other movie??????
    recently released???
    dam, dam, can't think of it!
    Rock'n Roll Circus, yeah.
    Also , the doors and hendrix, at one time read endless books on them, aerosmith, stuff like that
    Saw the stones, the who, aerosmith, U2, David Bowie.

    anyway, it seems to me, odd that this girl would want to get rid ;of you for asking to may quesstions.

    that is why I said, never enough questions and not ever enough answers.

  15. So I was close on the age and you ARE house-bound ? Which coast ? Notice you didn't even so much as attempt the Jerry question...You seem a little scattered, unfocused and sped up. Ritalin ? Just humor me. Unless this is annoying and offensive. The Dead we're just the vehicle, the cypher. It was the people that showed up that made it amazing. It was like teasing a mystery. All those freaks on acid locked in a huge hall together cued up on those songs. It was something about the group charge of it. Both ancient and very future at the same time. She was too young and inexperienced to understand me (I was a maniac at the time) and I was getting bored being the boy-toy companion. Her brothers we're leery of me. And she lied when I first met her about wanting to travel and run around. Get this. Her Mother, a corporate attorney, had us sleeping together in her house as a security measure. Ha !Totally cool woman.

  16. Ok I'll be honest this is getting offensive and annoying.

    I am not bed-ridden or housebound, I can move freely about. I proudly take no meds whatsoever.

    Given I know your an American, you are being a typical American, assuming everyone 'on line' hails from America, they don't.

    MKULTRA didn't just happen in America, experiments were conducted in Canada, Britian and the US, that I know of, and likely other places. Though MKULTRA emanates from the US.
    check out the documentaries at the side.

    I didn't bother with the Grateful dead stuff, because you asked me, how Jerry died, I could have looked it up, but I didn't.

    Ask me when Brian Jones died, where he died, how he died, different story.

    I am not a dead fan, never have been. It is as simple as that. But I will go research stuff if I am interested. Obviously the other stuff you left here sent me off hunting.
    If I seem scattered it may be because I am not sure what is motivating you to come here?
    The conversation?
    Not sure since you seem to be leaning towards insulting me?

    The subject matter, Owsley, the dead, mkultra, laurel canyon?

    thanks for explaining that about the dead, being the cypher.
    And the scene being about the people, more then the band.
    the mother had you sleeping in the same house for security?
    I bet you thought she was cool.

    Anywho, if you have something you wanna share surrounding this subject, by all means do.

    If by talking about this subject, you divulge personal experiences, and you are ok with that, then by all means share. As you have. If you want to point me to something of interest, then do.
    I mean if you wouldn't have left the stuff you did, I wouldn't have found out about the dead members being bohemian grove members which is weird.
    For me that time period is not one, I have any personal experience with.

    I hope that doesn't sound hostile, it is not intended to be.
    I would rather talk on my topic of interest, then talk on me.

  17. oh and one more thing, Roger, scroll down to the right, there is a jukebox, it is under the heading Penny's tunes.

    There is the music I like.
    Sorry, no grateful dead :(

    but lots of other good stuff!

  18. Mk actually comes from Germany and then probably from the middle east through the brotherhoods. Programming is very OLD and has been refined and "improved" at different times and places (China). (French-speaking and late twenties, yes ?) Actually, I'm not an American. I just like to see if I can guess a region that someone is from...Ah, you're practicing you're English writing ! Which is why I was picking up on a discontinuity that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Here's a piece by Timothy's second wife which "I've been told" was really sent in to handle him in Switzerland as their boy had seemed to have gone rogue (he was well on his way to being arrested later in Algeria and deported back to US). Did you read the bio that came out recently on Timothy ? Grof...who is extremely careful and understated about what he says in public said at a q+a that Timothy's public grand-standing at the time caused the L to be unnecessarily demonized and buried. But I can't help to wonder if that actually was on purpose. I heard that Russia has it quite available for anyone that has an interest. This guy was way more interesting thanTimothy......

  19. actually from what I have read, MK is German, yes, you can find that on my blog.
    Meinung Kontrolle. It is MK ultra because it was born out of the paperclip scientists.
    That were brought into the US after WW2. By the thousands.

    To my knowledge there is nothing middle eastern about it.

    Though I will ask what are the "brotherhoods"?

    It is alleged the chinese had a mind control program, also the Russians.

    In the korean war, america firmly believed mind control had been practiced on the american soldiers.

    But MKultra itself, was very much an American program, as was operation pheonix.

    One can see components of operation pheonix in the abuse at Abu Ghraib.

    The very first post you came to this blog on, had a video about operation pheonix up.
    Operation pheonix was employed during the vietnam war. Read Douglas Valentine, if interested in that horridness.
    thanks for the links and I will check them out :)

  20. This is pretty good...and it bypasses all the previous berbling attempts at "explanation." L might've been a diversion from these potential capacities. Cheers !

  21. thanks roger, cheers back to you and I will give this a listen!

  22. Hi Roger:
    I do hope you are still lurking, it is a time to plant, ya know?

    Anyway, I did listen to the podcast and I have to say, I must listen again. I am not so much into metaphysical stuff, probably moreso then some and less then others, but that show is a two time listener.

    Also the link you left wrt
    Alfred Hubbard
    really piqued my interest.
    I want to do some work on that, I gotta dig my own dirt, that is a gardening metaphor.
    It will appear in a future post.
    So thanks!
    Hope all is well with you and yours and I will check back and see if you replied.
    Thanks for that bit of info.