Friday, July 1, 2016

Lavrov: Russia & Turkey, no differences on who are considered terrorists in Syria.

Lavrov is also telling us that Turkey (non NATO)  doesn’t support the terrorists they’ve been accused of supporting- Hmmm... I wonder if Turkey and Russia have been in agreement prior to the apology?

I'll italicize Lavrov’s statement:

The Turkish side agrees with Russia that the Syrian opposition should withdraw from the terrorists’ positions, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday.

The Russian foreign minister made this statement after a meeting with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu on the sidelines of a session of the foreign ministers from the Black Sea Economic Cooperation Organization (BSEC) member states.

"Today we discussed the situation, which has long caused our alarm, namely, when our US partners cannot separate some opposition groups from Jabhat al-Nusra [terrorist organization outlawed in Russia], although they have long promised to do so," the Russian foreign minister said.

"When apprehensions and concerns are voiced, including those addressed to us and to the Syrian government to the effect that our aviation attacks wrong targets because there are oppositionists there cooperating with the Americans, we remind them of the pledge the United States gave publicly that those who do not want to come under strikes should leave the positions held by Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State [terrorist organization outlawed in Russia]," the Russian foreign minister said.

"The Turkish colleagues have confirmed that they agree with this logic," he added.

"Both Russia and Turkey want the constructive patriotic opposition, if there is such opposition, which is still staying on the territories controlled by terrorists, to withdraw its units from there as quickly as possible. Otherwise, it will be actually considered as an accomplice of Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State," the Russian foreign minister said.

There have been abundant reports regarding Turkey shelling ISIS position in Syria
In compliance with the UN Security Council resolution, the Islamic State, Jabhat al-Nusra and affiliated organizations are recognized as terrorist groupings, the Russian foreign minister said.
‘When this resolution was discussed, Russia proposed including at least two more organizations into this list: Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham because there is evidence that these organizations are violating all the martial laws and committing attacks under terrorist patterns against civilians to plant seeds of fear," Lavrov said.
According to the Russian foreign minister, today "there is quite substantial progress, there is agreement on the ceasefire and that the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra are excluded from this regime along with the groupings that are openly violating the truce."
"This is the rule that makes the basis for the activity of both the Russian air task force and the US-led coalition that also integrates Turkey," Lavrov said.
The US led coalition that also integrates Turkey- interesting word choice from Mr Lavrov
I am certain from reading Lavrov's talk on numerous occasions he chooses his words carefully and precisely.  He didn't use "includes" Turkey. He used "integrates" Turkey
Let's define the words to understand why Lavrov chose integrate rather then include 

Include:"comprise or contain as part of a whole"
Integrate: "to bring together or incorporate (parts) into a whole"

Slight, but, important difference. The US led coalition has integrated  or incorporated some parts/aspects of Turkey, into the whole, which is the US led coalition. Integration was the correct word to use.  It accurately describes the situation with Turkey.

The minister pointed out that Russia and Turkey have no differences on who are considered terrorists in Syria.
The diplomat stressed his hope for contacts between Russian and Turkish military over Syria
According to Lavrov, Russia and Turkey have resumed the activities of the working group on the fight against terrorism.
"Our joint work on the fight against terrorism is acquiring particular relevance," he said. "Together with the Turkish side, we have set up a bilateral working group on combating terrorism. It comprises representatives of the Foreign Ministry and intelligence services. Over the past seven months, its work has been frozen for obvious reasons, but today we agreed to resume it at an early date. I think contacts will develop through other channels as well, including between the military in the two counties taking into account actions of our Aerospace Forces in accordance with the invitation of the Syrian government, taking into account the fact that Turkey is a member of the US-led coalition."
According to Lavrov, Russia and Turkey "will be able to discuss all, even the most difficult issues, including efforts to thwart terrorist financing in Syria from abroad and prevent the use of Turkish territory for supporting terrorist organizations."
Now that is interesting.
Today we identified these issues in general terms. I hope that we will be able to achieve joint results in practice," the minister said.

Thoughts on what Lavrov has stated?



    An interesting piece of analysis by Petr Lvov at NEO. Concerning the Turkey-Russia reproachment and reasons why it is ocurring now not later. Any thoughts?

    1. going to read that now, ty charles

    2. charles that's a good read and overall, in general, I would agree with most of the analysis that's for sure

      I don't feel Saudi Arabia has any great ambitions the author does- Turkey and Iran have been talking their great relationship up, trading etc- which he thinks is necessary and I agree
      He also feels the creation of Kurdistan is too far along to completely stop- It likely is, however, it should be curtailed from expanding any more at all!

      I applaud him loudly for having the courage to mention the creation of Kurdistan as a win/win for Israel- He is the only other person I've seen talk this other then myself and Scott at Willy Lomans

      Overa all - good read, very good read!

  2. Lavrov as is the case with Russia's spokesmen and leadership in general states clearly and concisely the Russian position. No hidden meanings, no obfuscation, no bs, just straight talk. They speak and then back up what they state.

    1. Exactly Charles, they have always been true people. I know some Russians myself and they are very civilised and sensible.

    2. As far as political figures go, Lavrov is my fave
      He's well spoken and can deliver an insult in the most cunning of ways- He chooses his words carefully
      all politicians do- but I find he speaks with more clarity then say Obama- who speaks to obfuscate more then be clear

      Good day Ally! :)

  3. YPG?

    What is Russia game visavis the Kurds.

    Passports say Russians and Chechens, not doubt related to the series of Russian assassinations and recent Turkish arrests

    IFX: U.S. offers cooperation on Syria on unacceptable terms - head of State Duma committee on defense


      Interesting comments about the US cooperation after Assad said yesterday that western countries already call on Syria but don't talk about for fear of blow back from US

    2. "We are not against the cooperation with the United States, but such a cooperation should address and discuss the mutual interests and work on applying them, but not to put their interest over ours," the president said.

    3. I've never been able to get a really good read on Russia's deal with the YPG

      What little I've taken away from the various news stories I've seen is that Russia would likely tolerate some limited version of Kurdistan as long as their interests are considered- But I really haven't come across enough info to say that conclusively - Particularly since some of the terror groups Lavrov is citing are Kurdish terror groups

      Jaysh al-Islam has it's roots in the Kurdish Muslim Brotherhood/Islamist movements

  4. Hi Pen,
    There has been a string of events (that I listed in a previous post) that look to me like evidence of the impotence (despite the noise) of the US to determine the outcome in Syria. Turkey must see this. As the wind shifts, so does Turkey (being quintessential psychopaths).

    The other thing is, as you've noted often, that they are very aware that the US/israel is intent on breaking up Turkey (after promising them a new Ottoman Empire) and the only viable ally the Turks can possibly turn to to help them stop that is Russia.

    Russia will not help them expand their Ottoman dreams (which would be at Russia's expense) but it will help keep Turkey alive which is a whole lot better than getting run down by the US and their Mossad friends.

    Speaking of Mossad, the airport bombing in Instanbul is looking more and more like a standard (if rushed) Mossad op, to me, to punish a waving domestic govt.
    My thoughts FWIW.

    1. I should add that the price of Russia's help is that Turkey stop hosting ISIS on its territory, as you highlighted at the end of your article, Pen.

      I'm not sure that Erdogan (and whomever is with him) can deliver, though.

    2. That was interesting was it not?

      "prevent the use of Turkish territory for supporting terrorist organizations."

      Implies someone else is using Turkish territory for that purpose and Russia is willing to work with the Turks to prevent that from happening

      I know what you mean wrt Erdogan, pretty sure he has some friends, but, I'm not sure that he has enough to reign that in

    3. "The Istanbul airport attack was aimed at disrupting Turkey's attempts to mend relations with Russia and Israel, Konstantin Kosachev, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Russian parliament's upper house, said Wednesday."

    4. Erdogan motivated by saving his own skin-

      "Interesting times" ahead for Mr Erdogan.

    5. ""Interesting times" ahead for Mr Erdogan."

      It looks to be the case and james I've an interesting oldie from Alexander Dugin regarding Turkey I'm about to post!

  5. Slightly off topic but related. Israel laying out its gas strategy and the big finds it expects. With the Egypt superfields, will Egypt need the Israeli gas? And is that why Israel is so anxious to bud the floating port off Gaza?

    Israel would appear to be trying to hedge its 'shared' finds with the Russia outreach. Presumably Russia understands this and the collapsing LNG prices glob all ($15 in 2013 vs. $5 now into Asia)

    1. I'll have a read shortly of that- thanks

    2. Russia has gotten to this point well prepared: the Middle Eastern natural gas and oil is essentially under Russian control. A most important point to consider is Russia has the full support of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which at this juncture unites more than four billion people. Russia possesses a large stockpile of precious metals, it's agricultural sector is growing at historically unprecedented rates. They are now the largest exporter of wheat in the world. As for US/NATO/ZIO threats the Russian military has become the most technologically advanced. They have Kalipr Missles, anti-missle defense systems that are the envy of the west, and their electronic systems Khobiny and Krusaka have surpassed all western analogs. The list can go on and on. The Shanghai Cooperation Organization is not just a powerful union, it is a superpower union of nuclear countries with growing economies, with the majority of earth's population, and with an unlimited perspective for development. Russia will be the one determining whether or not Israel's stolen natural gas reaches Turkey.

  6. thoughts on this?

    1. Unconfirmed I see.

      "The White House said that over 200 ISIS vehicles were destroyed in the airstrikes, but did not make an official statement about the amount of fighters killed"

      Does make one wonder if the US targeted Iraqi military and shiite militias though?

  7. On question waged yesterday? or day before. I knew, but couldn't think of the darn name,
    ICTS and of course, tribe ( which I knew, but G4S kept coming up in my mind, and I knew it wasn't them 4 airports )

    they are huge, and as example, they hold security for airport origin of the BUK / Ukraine plane also.
    very long list

    1. Thanks, Karen. Oy vei, what a run of bad luck they're having.

    2. Thanks Karin

      It was james that asked about the security and I hadn't checked into it, glad your brought that here

      and as james said 'what a run of bad luck they're having' ;)

  8. Hi James, and Pen,
    Glad that info got to the right parties. :)

  9. Hi Penny -

    This piece from Russia explains the "Russian trace" in airport attack:

    "Terrorist attack at Istanbul airport Ataturk was supposed to worsen and without that not the best relations between Moscow and Ankara. Western media have trumpeted to the world about a "Russian trace" in the organization of attacks on the airport. Some Turkish reporters arrived at the scene of the terrorist attack of inertia wavered in their suspicion between ISIS and the PKK.

    But Turkish intelligence services worked quickly and caught the organizers. The Russian track was not so Russian. The alleged organizer Akhmet Chatayev in 2003 received political refugee status in Austria, as in this status he was repeatedly arrested, but each time by a strange coincidence he was able either to avoid punishment or to get relatively small sentences.

    Chatayev was detained during the second Chechen campaign, however, he somehow managed to avoid time and in 2003 moved to Austria, where he received refugee status. He claimed that he was allegedly severely tortured in jail and even cut off his hand (according to others, the arm was amputated due to wounds).

    In March 2008, along with other natives of Chechnya detained on a ferry that arrived to the Swedish town of Trelleborg. In the car, decorated on chatayev, was discovered Kalashnikov rifles, explosives and ammunition. The one-armer claimed that arsenal had been planted.

    After sitting in Swedish prison for more than a year, Chatayev moved to Ukraine. There he was arrested again, but at the request of Russian law enforcement agencies. However, extradition is not reached: for a Chechen human rights activists intervened, reminding the Ukrainian authorities that Chatayev had received refugee status in Austria.

    A year later, Akhmed Chatayev was detained in Georgia, in the Lopota gorge, where after a collision with a detachment of fighters of the Georgian security forces carried out search activities. That battle killed 11 bandits and killed three Georgian security officials. Chatayev said that there is no relationship to the same group of militants. Tbilisi court acquitted chatayev, and he is sitting in prison only a few months, was released. After that he moved to Syria, where, according to Russian special services, was in charge of all the Russian direction.

    Where he arrived in Turkey, it does not say, however, the Turkish media reported that the "capital" of ISIS - the Syrian city of raqqa - arrived in Istanbul one of the bombers - Osman Badinov. (end of quote)

    The Turkish authorities first accused of organizing the terrorist attack the PKK, that is, in Moscow reached certain agreements that will reduce the level of confrontation between Ankara and the Kurds. Information shot called "Russian trace" also not hit the target.

    The desire of the American partners to create a hostile Kurdish zone along the Turkish border have not yet been crowned with success, and in the absence of tacit approval of Moscow that the US plans will not materialize. Relax in a familiar habitat Russian tourists yet, in my opinion to go is dangerous, but acting in the international arena as a United front, Russia and Turkey can withstand the transatlantic warmongers.

    1. Silver Palomino!! That's a great article!
      Thanks so much for leaving it