Monday, October 29, 2018

With Russia in its crosshairs, Canada moves to buy sub hunters

Canada Moves to Buy a Sub Hunter..... Russia in Canada’s Crosshairs?
5 Eyes? Of course! It’s even mentioned in the article.
Is this a costly item? Of course it is!
And prone to cost over runs as well....

Defense News

A rendering of the Canadian Type 26, on track to win Canada's frigate competition. (Courtesy of Lockheed Martin)

PARIS — The Royal Canadian Navy is moving toward Britain’s Type 26 frigate design, a multimission ship designed to cut through the water quietly, hunt submarines, and defend against hostile missiles and aircraft.

The Canadian government announced mid-October that a team led by Lockheed Martin Canada had been selected as the “preferred designer.” That team was offering up British defense firm BAE Systems’ Type 26 design.
On the watch of the Trudeau government- Mr Peace, Love and Understanding...

To some, the selection of the Type 26 design was a surprise given that Britain only just began cutting steel for the first one last summer, and as with any new ship and design, there is a high potential for cost overruns and delays.

But the Arctic nation’s selection of a ship that is a purpose-built sub hunter could be a sign that it is willing to accept those risks because of the strategic threat Russia poses to Canada’s interests at the rapidly thawing top of the world.
“For the Canadians, anti-submarine warfare is a big deal,” said Bryan Clark, a retired U.S. submarine officer and analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. “If you are worried about the Russian sub threat and the air threat, then, yeah, the Type 26 makes sense.”

Indeed, BAE executives here said a big part of Type 26 is its anti-submarine warfare-friendly design elements.
" Anti- Submarine Warfare- friendly design elements"
“That was a huge discriminator for us,” Anne Healey, a vice president with BAE Systems, told a roundtable of reporters at the Euronaval conference. “We are extremely quiet and we are probably the world’s most advanced frigate … and that’s a key element of what sets us apart and what’s valued by the Canadian Navy.”

The ASW features were also a big factor for Australia, which is locked in a standoff with China over its actions in the South and East China seas, vital sea lanes for the Pacific nation.

The shift toward ASW is part of an industry trend, said Gary Fudge, a vice president with Lockheed Martin Canada.
“For the last 15 years, most allied navies have put their efforts into anti-air warfare, whereas the threat that has emerged in the last 15 years is largely in submarine technologies,” Fudge said. "So we wake up 15 years later finding that the focus has gone into anti-air, but the real threat is in submarines.

“The number of submarines produced in the 15 years is phenomenal, and now the world has woken up and it doesn’t have the same ASW capability anymore and it hasn’t kept pace with the anti-air warfare technology. So Canada is very interested in getting back on track.”
All told, Canada wants to buy up to 15 frigates with a notional total program cost of $60 billion all in. And while the selection of Lockheed and BAE is a big win for the companies, the project could still fall through as the program enters an evaluation phase where Lockheed’s bid will be examined, and Canada’s requirements will be reviewed to ensure that Type 26 is the best bet.
Yes, that is 60 BILLION Dollars with the potential for  cost over runs
The final decision should come some time over the winter, according to a report by the Canadian Broadcast Corporation.

But assuming the contract moves forward, it would mean three of the “Five Eyes” countries — the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada — will operate Type 26 frigates. (The United States — which passed on the Type 26 design during its frigate competition — and New Zealand are the other two counties in the intelligence sharing pact.)

Clark, the CSBA analyst, said the selection of Type 26 was in some ways surprising because of the potential for cost overruns.

Must be what we need the carbon tax for, right? I mean, 60 Billion dollars!
Can't forget the legalization of marijuana- that should be another windfall
Surely these submarine hunters are 'clean and green' or Trudeau wouldn't bother with them. (I'm being snarky)


“It’s not yet a proven ship, and you are taking a ship that is not even built yet and making it the basis of your frigate program,” Clark said. “It is a little surprising, especially for a country that might lack the wherewithal and the funding for potential cost and schedule overruns.”

But BAE thinks Canada will be in good shape because the British and Australian programs are underway, meaning Canada should be able to avoid early mistakes through shared lessons learned. Furthermore, not much in the way of design changes were needed to meet the Canadian requirement.
“The amount of design change that we are doing is only 10 percent, so it’s going to represent a very low risk in terms of the alterations that are being made,” Healey said.

By way of comparison, the U.S. Navy had to change about 40 percent of the design of its DDG Flight IIA to incorporate the new SPY-6 radar in Flight III.
It's been a busy day:



  1. Penny, I don't know if you're old enough to remember the 6 submarines Canada bought from Britain a couple of decades ago. The Beatles' song "Yellow Submarine" was written about them. They were ALL lemons. They were always breaking down and had to be towed. So Canada has a long history of spending taxpayer's hard earn coin on naval lemons.

    1. Hey GC:
      I didn't recall the submarines at first but then hubby said oh yah, I remember them!
      and he talked about what was in the article left by Yaya
      before I'd read it and yup... it came back to me

      do you think these sub hunters will be as bad?
      those that claim to 'represent' me are throwing a lot of money at this..

  2. Hi Penny: Just to nitpick: Greencrow is correct that Canada bought lemons from Britain in 1998:
    but reportedly only four of them -- and the Beatles wrote the song in 1966. Maybe they were psychic?

    I'm old enough to recall both events. Sigh. I have a 50 year old nephew who sang the song all the time but couldn't pronounce submarine so it came out "Shnubnereen". Maybe he was psychic too, because they sure weren't what they were said to be.

    1. thanks yaya- read the link

      perhaps it's easy enough to write about yellow submarines past and present because most spending on military machinery is wasted on overpriced and poorly produced trash..

      What did you think about Canada having Russia in it's crosshairs- that's a presentation of Canada as aggressive.. so very un Canadian

      Thinking to about Trudeau's cult of personality..

    2. Ahem ... my age again ... it isn't the first time Canada has gone along with an anti-Russian meme. When I was a young bride, we couples sat around in our living rooms discussing what we would do when the bombs fell on us, and philosophical questions like, if we had a shelter and other people tried to get in, what would we do. Pretty much as naive as the old couple in the British movie "When the Wind Blows".

      Back then it was because the Ruskies were commies, but now it's because of what Eisenhower warned about - the military/industrial complex - the growing war economy. Fat cats always get fatter in wartimes.

      To tell you the truth, I loved the Russian poets and authors, and the movies Dr. Zhivago and Reds, and I've always wanted to see Russia. Maybe in my next life.

  3. Maybe there were only four lemon submarines...but the humiliation and financial hit felt like six. The Beatles were probably singing about their earlier lemon submarines that they had built for themselves.

    1. from the sounds of it yellow submarines is appropriate no matter the time frame.

  4. Hi penny, gc, I remember the Nott defence review and the overall impression given then that UKplc was fed up with defence capabilities. Everything that has been bought since then has been done on the cheap because it was not really wanted.

    Thinking even further back I am reminded of French armaments procurement in the 30s. All rubbish sold by armaments firm that were not bothered with defence just pocketing a load of cash.

    BAe...purveyors of national sovereignty sabotage. USofA corp has no idea how badly it has been infested by commercial 5th columns.

    1. hey incoming!!!
      thanks for stopping by here :)

      "BAe...purveyors of national sovereignty sabotage."

      I suspect the military industrial complex in general is guilty as charged of pure unadulterated profiteering, without shame,because they can

  5. This is great news that the neighbors in the north have finally joined the bat-shit-crazy Amerikan neo-conns in Russia is BAD.

    1. Hey jo!

      Sadly, Canada's been in this position for a while.
      One need only look at the wacky Freeland woman to get an indication of that! Chrystia Freeland
      Rhodes Scholar
      supporter of the Ukrainian overthrow and worse

    2. LOL I forgot about that crazy, she's bolton of the northland;-)

  6. Hi Penny...
    Thank you for your condolences via GC. My computer has been down too so I'm trying to catchup whenIcan. Still busy with my mother's household of 61 years. I've never seen it empty. I sure do miss her. To all moms out there, you're the best. wallflower (and a newfound kitten)

    1. Wallflower: I'm glad you stopped by.

      Your heart must be broken. I lost my Grandmother eight years ago and I still miss her, everyday, I shudder to think about losing my parents.

      I hope the new kitten helps- they are such little clowns.
      Take care wallflower.... My thoughts are with you

  7. Hi Penny: You might be way ahead of me on this, but just in case ... Here's a record of Canada's aggressive role in the "Cold War" with Russia complete with internal spies and honey traps.

    Also: My all-time favourite hockey game (not normally a rabid enthusiast)while sentiments toward Russia were still quite hostile:

    USSR-Canada Summit Series 1972 game 1 part 1

    And here's the movie made of it which includes the events leading up to the game itself. It was all hugely exciting. The Canadians thought the Russians were dirty players, but it was easy to see who really was. Think I'll watch it again tonight.

    1. thanks Yaya!
      started to look at the link, but, I tell ya these past few days have been so hectic and tiring.
      I saw you had a new post up but haven't read it thoroughly as of yet. But, I will!